NEW YORK (AP) - Dish Network Corp. said Monday that its second-quarter profit slid 81 percent on TiVo Inc. litigation costs and rising expenses, but the nation's second-largest satellite TV provider managed to add subscribers and maintain revenue.

The Englewood, Colo.-based company earned $63.4 million, or 14 cents per share, for the period ended June 30. That's down from $335.9 million, or 73 cents per share, last year.

Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters, whose estimates typically exclude one-time items, forecast profit of 67 cents per share.

Revenue was nearly flat at $2.90 billion, with prior-year revenue coming in at $2.91 billion. Analysts expected revenue would not stray far from year-ago results, predicting $2.91 billion for the current quarter.

Total costs and expenses rose to $2.64 billion, which included a TiVo litigation expense of $196.4 million. In a worst-case scenario, Dish's court battle with TiVo could force Dish to yank its digital video recorders over patent claims.

Subscriber acquisition costs increased to $388.3 million from $371.4 million, while general and administrative expenses grew to $143.5 million from $122.3 million.

Dish, widely viewed as one of the weaker players in the pay-TV industry, says it added about 26,000 net subscribers - its first quarterly increase in five quarters. The pay-TV industry includes cable, satellite TV and phone companies that provide TV services.

Dish, which concentrates on being a low-cost provider, said its subscriber growth was helped by the digital transition on June 12, the completion of its security access device replacement program and new sales and marketing efforts.

The company said its low-cost provider approach has been weakened by competitors' aggressive promotional pricing to draw new subscribers as well as other promotions used to keep existing subscribers. Signal theft and other types of fraud have also hurt its position, but Dish said its security access device replacement program was meant to resecure its system.

Average monthly subscriber churn rate, or the rate at which it lost customers, fell to 1.73 percent from 1.87 percent.

awwww poor babies, 63.5 million only :o

It would help if they negotiated rights to the "NFL Sunday Ticket". DTV has locked it up again until 2014.

Gotta pay to play with the big boys.

They lost money!!!! I'm so so sad......not.

I Feel So Sorry For The Big Guy! May Be That Need Some Federal Ade. You Think. I Only Made 16000 Last Year.

Average monthly subscriber churn rate, or the rate at which it lost customers, fell to 1.73 percent from 1.87 percent.
Don't they mean Chump rate?

I for one am glad to see charlie lose money, maybe he will start to feel what it is like after stealing money unjustly from his retailers after we helped build his company.

I for one am glad to see charlie lose money, maybe he will start to feel what it is like after stealing money unjustly from his retailers after we helped build his company.

i love when sat thiefs say loosing thier buisness will hurt the company :)

Keith, I have always enjoyed and respected your posts, so i have to ask what your response meant as i am confused?

Keith, I have always enjoyed and respected your posts, so i have to ask what your response meant as i am confused?

are you just 100% free to air?
if not then you should understand.
if you have ever loaded a non factory bin on your fta then chances are you are a thief.:P

So what are you?

a thief of course, but i sit back happily and dont complain and wait for free when it comes :)

I love honesty- I love free tv and yup I'm stealing- we all are

I for one am glad to see charlie lose money, maybe he will start to feel what it is like after stealing money unjustly from his retailers after we helped build his company.

I have a lot of ex diknt dealer friends that feel the same way as you do

they learned the system, invested in a future with this company and the company put them under with all the charge backs etc etc

too bad they lost a lot of very experienced professionals that moved on to bigger and better things

Obviously you have never had your own business and been in bed with the wrong people!

ok for then next poster or any who say they arent stealing and deserve the signal beamed into their backyard, man up call bev or dn and say hey im watching your signal and screw you.
dont post bs saying your not a thief but wont post your real name because your hiding.
only thieves hide, get over it.

Keith, last message was for you, And who is complaining, i was just stating my opinion.

lol people- if you get caught you get charged and go to court- that means- against the law

its all cool, just amazes me how many are complaining over free tv.

in not complaining,,,im watching TV:yes:

Once again, NO ONE was complaining! I don't get how some simple statements of opinion get so misconstrued! I simply meant that I was in a position that allowed dn to grow from it's inception. I feel no lost love for an organization, and I use that term loosely, that would put the screws to hardworking people who are just trying to make a living! To start name calling, belittling, etc... is just unnecessary! I, just like everyone in this community, have the right to state my opinion without being subjected to all the grief by people who do not read the post for the correct meaning. Everyone knows the deal; no one is complaining!

ok dont take anything so serious then.
i guess you are just here for educational reasons and have never used a non factory bin and just do true free to air.
thats cool i like to meet the odd member who is not here for hacked/stolen tv.
when im ready to set up my free to air dish im sure you will assist me then :)

ok dont take anything so serious then.
i guess you are just here for educational reasons and have never used a non factory bin and just do true free to air.
thats cool i like to meet the odd member who is not here for hacked/stolen tv.
when im ready to set up my free to air dish im sure you will assist me then :)

and ill help you with your iks system lol

cmon freddy , i cant do that im going legit :)

cmon freddy , i cant do that im going legit :)

hehehehe ya me too

My bad. The point was only understood by those who have walked in the shoes. For those of you who do understand..."it's not really cheatin'; it's just gettin' even!" Remember Dr. Gene Scott? I can help you with your FTA if need be. I've been there for a number of years.

The way I see it, if they start loosing money, and keep loosing, they will go out of business. Then where will everyone be?

i give up, keep sugar coating whatever you like.
if everyone was free tv'ers the providers would go broke the sats would fall and well we all could go cable.

Point well taken poobah, I never intended for this to go this way, I was just happy to see i was not the only one losing money!

Point well taken poobah, I never intended for this to go this way, I was just happy to see i was not the only one losing money!

what do you do that you are loosing money?
a legit installer?
a legit dealer?
im curious.

Well Keith where do think cable T.V. gets their programming from?

so again explain how you are loosing money?
your a cable installer then?

I was both for a number of years, Keith. What were you doing during the formative era of satellite T.V.?

I don't get where the people posting that Dish lost money are getting their info from. From what I read, "profits were down". They are still making a profit though. Also, the biggest chunk that was taken out of their profits was from a one-time cost (the TiVo lawsuit). Dish isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

i have been a legit bev and star installer in the past.
not once has the provider screwed me as they pay installers piecework per unit plus extra for over 1 ird.
so im curious what the provider did to screw you?
my bet is you consider a ecm or card swap as a screwing as you probably just install illicit fta's which you cant consider in their concern.

I have totally lost all respect for you! You know not what you speak of. You are just a want to be, with no life.

I don't get where the people posting that Dish lost money are getting their info from. From what I read, "profits were down". They are still making a profit though. Also, the biggest chunk that was taken out of their profits was from a one-time cost (the TiVo lawsuit). Dish isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

i will bet $$ that subs went up as did profit after the swap.

I have totally lost all respect for you! You know not what you speak of. You are just a want to be, with no life.

well as i had none for you to start with.... no loss sir.

This pissing match is useless to everyone here. Way to F*** up a pretty simple thread.

I have never installed illegit equipment and i was a dealer/ installer and i have been screwed over by charlie. I have tried to keep this discussion to P.M. but you will not let it be.

im simply saying and have said to be happy that the provider who gives you in a sense free tv is suffering is crazy.
to blame them for your missfortunes is even worse.

No misfortunes... it's all good.

What Go's Up Comes Down And Whos To Say Who Will Cough It.

I've watched this thread from the start, come on people let's all get along with eachother.....that's one of the biggest rules in this hobby. I feel if this thread continues the way it has been then a admin or mod will step in an lock it. Everyone needs to show some respect toward one another. See if we all argued over something crazy no doubt the hobby wouldn't be fun anymore an we'd be like some people still today who only logs in snatches the files and runs. Now would you all wanna be like that ? I for one don't want to see people like that or wanna be one of those people. After all we are a whole community and we are supposed to welcome one another.

Back to the topic tho......this is rather bad news for charlie and his DN, let's hope they don't continue to lose money. Because just as the super mod indicated if it continues DN could go out of business.

c/p

Updated: Aug 10, 2009, 05:56 PM ET

NEW YORK -- After five quarters, Di@h N@@@ork finally stopped bleeding customers, news that sent its stock and that of sister company EchoStar soaring on Monday.

Dish said it added 26,000 subscribers in the second quarter for a total 13.6 million. Not as good as the 224,000 subs its rival Dire@@V added in the quarter for a total of more than 24 million, but it's a victory for Dish because it's a positive number for a change, and Wall Street took notice.

Shares of Dish advanced 5% Monday to $19.30 while Ec@@Star, which provides much of the technology Dish relies on, saw its shares move 8% higher to $15.97.

Dish reported revenue of $2.9 billion, unchanged from a year ago, but net income of just $63 million, down 81% from the $336 million it earned in the year-ago quarter.

Part of the blame for falling profit goes to increased costs, up 15% to $2.64 billion, in part due to a $196 million charge related to its patent lawsuit with TiVo which, after six years, still isn't completely settled.

Ec@@Star also reported quarterly results Monday. The company earned $101.8 million, up 113% from a year ago, on revenue that fell 21% to $383.1 million. The results this time included a $110.1 million gain from an investment.

well they may not be adding as many as dtv but they are far from loosing money.
as a satellite provider for cost per channel they arent bad.
same as in canada bev and star are pretty par on par for cost.

Thanks for the update and information neutron. I don't think after seeing the update that DN will be going out of business anytime soon so rest asure peeps.

Play nice, please!

it wouldn't be long,when they have to pull back the dogs (lawyers). they have a lot of issues to handle money. share holders,tech,and keeping customers. they spent a lot on lawyers who is just eating them up. i bet they start backing off soon or may be a take over is in the futher. remember when you have money you get funny, when your broke your a joke... we could now be seeing the fixes we are waiting for.

c/p

Updated: Aug 10, 2009, 05:56 PM ET

NEW YORK -- After five quarters, Di@h N@@@ork finally stopped bleeding customers, news that sent its stock and that of sister company EchoStar soaring on Monday.

Dish said it added 26,000 subscribers in the second quarter for a total 13.6 million. Not as good as the 224,000 subs its rival Dire@@V added in the quarter for a total of more than 24 million, but it's a victory for Dish because it's a positive number for a change, and Wall Street took notice.

Shares of Dish advanced 5% Monday to $19.30 while Ec@@Star, which provides much of the technology Dish relies on, saw its shares move 8% higher to $15.97.

Dish reported revenue of $2.9 billion, unchanged from a year ago, but net income of just $63 million, down 81% from the $336 million it earned in the year-ago quarter.

Part of the blame for falling profit goes to increased costs, up 15% to $2.64 billion, in part due to a $196 million charge related to its patent lawsuit with TiVo which, after six years, still isn't completely settled.

Ec@@Star also reported quarterly results Monday. The company earned $101.8 million, up 113% from a year ago, on revenue that fell 21% to $383.1 million. The results this time included a $110.1 million gain from an investment.

probably most of those 26,000 people had to hide all their fta equipment when they invited DN to install dishes in their house! ha ha

Somebody may have already said this, but I'm pretty sure I didn't see it. Anyways, I assume that while FTA is working, D!sh probably has a higher number of subscribers from all the FTA'ers that buy the subscription as a backup plan for when the ECM's hit.

Wonder if they ever considered that as a healthy source of income.

Somebody may have already said this, but I'm pretty sure I didn't see it. Anyways, I assume that while FTA is working, D!sh probably has a higher number of subscribers from all the FTA'ers that buy the subscription as a backup plan for when the ECM's hit.

Wonder if they ever considered that as a healthy source of income.

so you believe more fta users sub when their fta's are working as compared to when fta's are down?
i cant see it but who knows.

Well, I have no stats obviously, but from reading around on the forums the last couple of months it seems a lot of people in FTA switched to DirectTV when N3 took over.

So in a pipe dream, D!sh could undo N3 or secretly release the answer to cracking it in order to steal back those customers:) D!sh spies, please jot this down in your notepads for your next board meeting.

hehehe hey thats a nice thought but im not going to hold my breath :)
i still bet their sub numbers increased when n3 fully came on board.
sure lots moved to dtv also as its a great provider, for fun i will start a poll on whats prefered.

-----> http://www.ftabins.net/showthread.php?p=600023#post600023

LOL it's not theft or larceny unless you intend to permanently deprive the owner of its use! So we'll call it wrongfull appropriation! LMAO

Their 2nd quarter ended June 30. I believe Black Thursday was June 18. I'd be willing to bet you'll see a lot more new subs for Charlie next quarter...

I do not know if this is the right forum but does anybody knows about the pc-internet tv with a single payment of approx 50

(revenue of $2.9 billion ... minus $250Million patent lawsuit with TiVo and new N3 costs)
still made $60+Million...

so they can make 10% profit on sales... that is not too bad of return..better than keeping in Bank

1-I am thinking of investing $ in Echostar
2-Dish should release a file for direct TV... they could put it up in this site..
3-I need more money

how about next year

its a hard time!

I remember getting cable in the late 70s @20 bucks a month....no commercials. The costs have risen but the commercials are unreal, a 60 minute program is actually 15 minutes and 45 minutes of Billy Mays or how to keep your willy up for 4 hours. Why should anyone pay a sub to watch advertising. There are what they call infomercials, They charge us to watch this crap and call it a channel we are getting in our monthly cost. :thmbdn: I do not want to watch praise the Lord channels I give at my local church. They should charge the subscribers who want to watch that. How is a colon cleaning pill or a body fat eater an infomercial and not a regular batch of garbage that I pay for? Go through your entire sub and delete or make a favorite channel of what you really want to pay for and you will probably cancel your sub. Simple math says 3 billion revenue divided by 13.6 million subs equals 220 a yr or 18.33 a month. So I say they could make the same revenue if not more by giving all subs every channel for 20 bucks a month. Sounds simple. What would happen if they did that?
What would Dave do? What would they save on smart cards and encryption? How many subs would they pick up? Could they charge more for advertising because they would have 30 million more subs? People just want value for what they work so hard for, that is why having a basic sub and getting all the channels is so popular among people who would not steal a cent. Just my opinion on things and I like hearing others opinions who have an interest in the same hobby.

About To Go To Dish This Is Driving Me Crazy Need My Satelite Back

I wish CHARLIE EVERY SUCCESS in every thing but thier security. If they go broke I have to pay for TV

Dish has little or no control on programing packages, This is decided by the big controlers of cable and owners of the channels like Viacom, Time Warner,ect. Dish is often bullied into these deals with no recourse but not to have the programming.

This thread perked my interest so I dug into the 10-Q filed with the SEC for the quarter ending June 30, 2009. I only analyzed DISH, not echostar.

Overall, I don't think that N3 is going to help them that much. If you read the summaries below and read the full report, you will find in their own words that circumstances, aggressive competitor strategies, and loss of strategic partnership with ATT, are much greater worries for **** than the low level thievery that goes on here.

OK. Let's break it down based on the first 40 pages of the SEC filing. btw - I read a lot of these in a past life.

Subscriber related revenue basically is exactly the same for the quarter and ytd, compared to last year.

Acquition cost primarily advertising and discounts went up primarily in advertising but less spending ytd than last year.(up 27 million)

Tivo litigation cost is a staggering 196.4 million dollars thus far. They expensed it all this quarter as ytd is the same figure and none for last year. (up 197.4 million)

Satellite transmission cost (to Echostar) went up 10 million. I suspect some of the N3 cost is buried in there. fyi - All N3 costs are on Echostar, not Dish.

Other interest net losses (up 33 million)

That sums up the difference in quarterly change.
(2008 Q2: 334 million) (2009 Q2 64 million)

334-197-10-27-33 = 67 million (misc 3 million)


Interesting tidbit:
Marketable securites increased in value to 1.45 billion in past 6 months, mre than doubling from 700 million.

It is good to know there are plenty of others who have the means are taking the bat the Charlie for various things.

Some old but still ongoing. One with Tivo is a killer if they win.

During 2004, Acacia Media Technologies (“Acacia”) filed a lawsuit against us and EchoStar in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.

During 2001, Broadcast Innovation, L.L.C. (“Broadcast Innovation”) filed a lawsuit against us, EchoStar, DirecTV, Thomson Consumer Electronics and others in United States District Court in Denver, Colorado.

On September 21, 2007, a purported class of cable and satellite subscribers filed an antitrust action against us in the United States District Court for the Central District of California.

During April 2007, Global Communications, Inc. (“Global”) filed a patent infringement action against us and EchoStar in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas.

During December 2008, Guardian Media Technologies LTD (“Guardian”) filed suit against us, EchoStar, EchoStar Technologies L.L.C., DirecTV and several other defendants in the United States District Court for the Central District of California alleging infringement of United States Patent Nos. 4,930,158 and 4,930,160.

During June 2007, Ronald A. Katz Technology Licensing, L.P. (“Katz”) filed a patent infringement action against us in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California. The suit alleges infringement of 19 patents owned by Katz. The patents relate to interactive voice response, or IVR, technology.

On February 13, 2009, Multimedia Patent Trust (“MPT”) filed suit against us, EchoStar, DirecTV and several other defendants in the United States District Court for the Southern District of California alleging infringement of United States Patent Nos. 4,958,226, 5,227,878, 5,136,377, 5,500,678 and 5,563,593, which relate to video encoding, decoding and compression technology.

On July 2, 2009, NorthPoint Technology, Ltd (“Northpoint”) filed suit against us, EchoStar, and DirecTV in the United States District Court for the Western District of Texas alleging infringement of United States Patent No. 6,208,636 (“the ‘636 patent”).

In February 2008, Personalized Media Communications, Inc. filed suit against us, EchoStar and Motorola, Inc. in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas alleging infringement of United States Patent Nos. 4,694,490, 5,109,414, 4,965,825, 5,233,654, 5,335,277, and 5,887,243, which relate to satellite signal processing.

During 2000, lawsuits were filed by retailers in Colorado state and federal courts attempting to certify nationwide classes on behalf of certain of our retailers. The plaintiffs are requesting the Courts declare certain provisions of, and changes to, alleged agreements between us and the retailers invalid and unenforceable, and to award damages for lost incentives and payments, charge backs, and other compensation.

On January 22, 2009, Technology Development and Licensing LLC (“TechDev”) filed suit against us and EchoStar in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois alleging infringement of United States Patent No. 35, 952, which relates to certain favorite channel features.

During January 2008, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit affirmed in part and reversed in part the April 2006 jury verdict concluding that certain of our digital video recorders, or DVRs, infringed a patent held by Tivo.

On May 28, 2008, Voom HD Holdings (“Voom”) filed a complaint against us in New York Supreme Court. The suit alleges breach of contract arising from our termination of the affiliation agreement we had with Voom for the carriage of certain Voom HD channels on the DISH Network satellite television service.

Other
In addition to the above actions, we are subject to various other legal proceedings and claims which arise in the ordinary course of business, including among other things, disputes with programmers regarding fees.


Subscriber gain/loss:
DISH Network added approximately 26,000 net new subscribers during the three months ended June 30, 2009, our first quarterly net increase in five quarters. For the six months ended June 30, 2009, our total subscriber base fell by approximately 68,000.

Based on what I read they are hurt a lot more than by FTAers:

While economic factors have impacted the entire pay-TV industry, our relative performance has been mostly driven by issues specific to DISH Network. In recent years, DISH Network’s position as the low cost provider in the pay-TV industry has been eroded by increasingly aggressive promotional pricing used by our competitors to attract new subscribers and similarly aggressive promotions and tactics used to retain existing subscribers. Some competitors have been especially aggressive and effective in marketing their service. Furthermore, our subscriber growth has been adversely affected by signal theft and other forms of fraud and by operational inefficiencies at DISH Network. We have not always met our own standards for performing high quality installations, effectively resolving customer issues when they arise, answering customer calls in an acceptable timeframe, effectively communicating with our subscriber base, reducing calls driven by the complexity of our business, improving the reliability of certain systems and subscriber equipment, and aligning the interests of certain third party retailers and installers to provide high quality service.
Our distribution relationship with AT&T was a substantial contributor to our gross and net subscriber additions over the past several years, accounting for approximately 17% of our gross subscriber additions for the year ended December 31, 2008. This distribution relationship ended January 31, 2009.

Tivo can really crush Charlie's balls if they win
If we are unsuccessful in overturning the District Court’s ruling on Tivo’s motion for contempt, we are not successful in developing and deploying potential new alternative technology and we are unable to reach a license agreement with Tivo on reasonable terms, we would be required to eliminate DVR functionality in all but approximately 192,000 digital set-top boxes in the field and cease distribution of digital set-top boxes with DVR functionality.

For those of you who got this far here is the link to the full report.
http://investor.echostar.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=950123-09-32467

if i had to take service,i would take d**h over cable any day.every time tv is down people want to put ,d**h down. with out them you would not have tv.only a sub think about it before posting. there losing nothing

(revenue of $2.9 billion ... minus $250Million patent lawsuit with TiVo and new N3 costs)
still made $60+Million...

so they can make 10% profit on sales... that is not too bad of return..better than keeping in Bank

1-I am thinking of investing $ in Echostar
2-Dish should release a file for direct TV... they could put it up in this site..
3-I need more money

Not bad? 10% is massive in any industry. Especially with the current economy situation in the US.

Any large corporation would be more than thrilled to be making 10%.

I am sure one of the providers will eventually throw the other under the bus by purchasing a hack.

And if Charlie were to ever go out of business, there would be another in its place.

Everyone should consider themselves fortunate since this blackout took place in the summer. If it had been winter, there would be a lot more sniveling.

A fix may never come. In the meantime, find a legit subscriber to piggy-back off of, get some rabbit ears, join netflix, or just enjoy summer by spending time outdoors.


This blackout is far from armageddon.

in response to keith:
i dont think any of us are theives, to be completely honest, there signal beams onto MY property lol, therefore i find it acceptable to use as i see fit lol. and people are only upset with not having there free tv because its a luxery you become used to just being there, so when dish implements n3 and takes it away, kinda pisses ya off a bit, and i can totally understand that especially with the lack of news coming in on progress of any sort of crack or word of news of anything being done (besides iks, which isnt a stable solution and i see it being absolete sometime soon) would i like my free tv back... yup lol sure would lol.. and as for dish losing money haha, well if an crack for n3 doesnt become available ever... well than dish can go flat bankrupt for all i care lol

in response to keith:
i dont think any of us are theives, to be completely honest, there signal beams onto MY property lol, therefore i find it acceptable to use as i see fit lol. and people are only upset with not having there free tv because its a luxery you become used to just being there, so when dish implements n3 and takes it away, kinda pisses ya off a bit, and i can totally understand that especially with the lack of news coming in on progress of any sort of crack or word of news of anything being done (besides iks, which isnt a stable solution and i see it being absolete sometime soon) would i like my free tv back... yup lol sure would lol.. and as for dish losing money haha, well if an crack for n3 doesnt become available ever... well than dish can go flat bankrupt for all i care lol

so why dont you put a sign up out front your house proudly admitting that you will and are going to legally intercept and use any and all signals in your private yard.
i would love to see the reaction a judge would have as he sentenced you to jail.
im sure most guys that grow weed feel its ok and same as everyone else who feels they deserve something for nothing.
dont get me wrong i have my free tv but unlike you i dont lie to myself and i know the laws.
its pretty straight forward, theft is theft even if its from a rich corporation.

how much does it cost for dn to host a network/channel (lets say CN), how much extra are people paying for that channel if 10 million (random number) are subscribed to that channel.
how much extra goes into the pocket of the head honchos of DN, of course everybody needs to get paid, but if the payoff is well beyond the expected percentage, than why not lower prices on channel packages.

if their still making good money even when the profits are down, why not lower prices permanently, they would sell allot more units.

hell, i would sub if the price was right, but as far as the price is now, no way am i paying that much for a few channels.

they for sure make money off cnn or discovery etc..
but remember with every package you have to buy the good and accept the bad.
for every 1 good channel i can sub i have to take 5 i dont want and we subidize the odd few that do.
i mean really who would pay for the golf channel lol
its just the way it works.
if users could actually pick just the channels they want i bet 70% of provider channels would be cancelled as too low a member base.

if users could actually pick just the channels they want i bet 70% of provider channels would be canceled as too low a member base.

good point, they really do have subs by the balls when it comes to paying for crap you don't want, guess those extra channels come in handy while channel surfing, always seem to find something weird to stare at for a few minutes till i decide to move on (kinda like the zoo ;)).

I've been reading all the posts and thought I'd do well to vent myself. First, I'm sorry, sincerely sorry DN profits are down. I'd be one of the first to subscribe if I was legally able to ... so much for free trade in the protected markets compliments of our government. Now, back in the days of C band and Ku band, I was legally able to have a 14' and 9' Paraclipse motorized dish installed in my back yard and subscribe to pretty much anything I wanted. The cable companies spent countless thousands to set up protection marketing with the CRTC via lobbying. Two years after spending over $ 7,200 on dishes, cable, videociphers and related hardware, I was told it was now illegal ! No compensation, just a big loss which was never redeemed aside from the scrap dealer on a per pound basis.
I find it amusing when lawyers, judges, police and the so called heads of society locate one of their own when caught "stealing" as in white collar misconduct and label it as "misappropriation of funds". If a blue collar worker gets caught, it's called theft. Needless to say, I do not support cable company in any way, nor will I ever as they have done more harm to the television industry than good. It takes more than just money to support TV, it takes governments to recognize the fact that censorship via any means is stealing from me the right to buy, view and support the individual television producers regardless of what country they are in. Protection marketing doesn't stop there and to prove it, just try buying a DLink 855 router in Canada or just try to buy coffee that is available in France or buy a Samsung 2280HD monitor in Canada. Samsung Canada isn't even aware that this monitor exists and just getting to Samsung dot com takes more than a few tries to even get on that website as Canadians are rerouted to Samsung dot ca so do I feel good about what I'm doing, NO but do I care enough to support our ridiculous laws that infringe on my rights to watch what I want .... well, let's just say I wish them all a very nice day. If DN was to ask for Canadian contributions, I'd contribute as I do not want DN to fail, go down, lose money or cease to be. I LOVE DN ! :thmbup:

they for sure make money off cnn or discovery etc..
but remember with every package you have to buy the good and accept the bad.
for every 1 good channel i can sub i have to take 5 i dont want and we subidize the odd few that do.
i mean really who would pay for the golf channel lol
its just the way it works.
if users could actually pick just the channels they want i bet 70% of provider channels would be cancelled as too low a member base. your right keith...for every 1 good channel you get 4-5 shitty ones !!! yes if they would let you pick your channels would be great & i would probaly suscribe ................NOT !!! LMAO ..well mabye but like that top 100 package or what ever it is top 60 for $24.99 has like 3 channels you can watch the rest are Qvc & home shopping bs junk !!!!!!!!!! :lol:

there profits should go up this quarter... they claim to have over 21000 new subscribers since the onset of N3

there profits should go up this quarter... they claim to have over 21000 new subscribers since the onset of N3

not if they join The KBOX Revolution ..... Resistance Is FUTILE:twisted:

LOL... I am glad they got new subscribers....we want them to be around so we can keep stealing from them....LMAO

they for sure make money off cnn or discovery etc..
but remember with every package you have to buy the good and accept the bad.
for every 1 good channel i can sub i have to take 5 i dont want and we subidize the odd few that do.
i mean really who would pay for the golf channel lol
its just the way it works.
if users could actually pick just the channels they want i bet 70% of provider channels would be cancelled as too low a member base.

Hey I watch the golf channel.

se ha visto que cuando d*v tranco a los piratas su acciones cayeron, ahora d**h le esta pasando lo mismo:evil:

I don't know if there profit down. but in my town i see alot dik van's than ever. and like keith1612 posted you can't just get one channel you have to get the whole god dam pkg. like last week i call them to get one of my favorite int'l channel that cost 10 dollers. but they want to give me three channel pkg for 20 doolors. other two channels are just crap.

i ll wait for a fix.i think there is still hope..

LOL it's not theft or larceny unless you intend to permanently deprive the owner of its use! So we'll call it wrongfull appropriation! LMAO

hmmm... a lawyer in our midst... :)

LOL it's not theft or larceny unless you intend to permanently deprive the owner of its use! So we'll call it wrongfull appropriation! LMAO

That's exactly right! Not only that, but I paid for my box and its installation. I didn't steal anything. The signal lands on my property without me doing anything to coerce it to do so. Finder's keepers.

Also, I wonder what dish's profit would be if they hadn't switched to N3 like that.

And regarding the original post:

"Signal theft and other types of fraud have also hurt its position, but Dish said its security access device replacement program was meant to resecure its system."

I don't follow their logic. Do they really think that if someone is watching dish FTA that they would be subscribing to DTV at the same time?

ive never heard a more stupid theory than it is beamed over my land.
so if by chance wirelines run overhead on your property you can hack them and steal hydro and well also hack into fiber optics and steal every bank account info.
cmon guys use common sense and come up with a better theory.
sure if you can wrap tinfoil around your head and get signal maybe then its ok.
if you use their encrypted keys its no different than walking in walmart and taking a item off the shelf and not paying.
period.