Could this be the end of FTA ?

maybe not the end of fta, buy I would say the end of freetech.....not good

Gonna move this to the FTA news section

A $100,000,000. They'll have to sell a lot of boxes to pay those fines.

Thanks for moving it. Your right it was silly of me to say FTA. True FTA will keep going strong I'm sure.

Time will tell about the rest now.

Why do they award an amount that can never be collected? Why not try to get 4 or 5 million, at least maybe they could collect on that...

Because that way they get everything they have now....and anything else they may ever have....essentially, burying them.

damn $106,000,000

Why are the documents not actually signed except that one with the electronic stamp.... I have never seen a legal document filed that way... hmmmm

This must have given pause for thought to all the other STB companies. Indeed, indeed, bad news.

Because that way they get everything they have now....and anything else they may ever have....essentially, burying them.

Yeah but cant they just declare bankruptcy and / or run away from this? If it was a "reasonable" figure they would probably just pay it and be done with it, as it stands now they are probably not going to collect a dime...

Yeah...they could declare bankruptcy...but then they are dead in the water.....and Dish isn't really worried about the money....those crooks get plenty of it.....they just wanted to shut one down, get one ruling in their favor.....now they have a precedent set to go after all manufacturers....this is not good

I would not want to be Jung Kwak right now......

these docs are B.S. they are not signed

hold on, nothing gets paid either way there are so many appeals that it will be locked in the legal system for many many years, and the company will go on, and at the end if the ruling sticks the amt. will drop considerably.

They have to be halfway to Korea anyway.

This document is bull, Whats with the electronic stamp? This is us Supreme court, They dont do electronic Stamps, That stamp looks photoshoped to me. Where are all the signatures?

The middle one isn't even dated.....

You are right!

Appeals will follow, for many, many months! Then, they will sign a agreement that will never reach the public. After that, Coolsat will came back even stronger (might be under diferent name).

It is not over yet!


Levy :|>

hold on, nothing gets paid either way there are so many appeals that it will be locked in the legal system for many many years, and the company will go on, and at the end if the ruling sticks the amt. will drop considerably.

This supposed ruling was 2 days ago... and yet there i snothing in th enews about freetech or coolsat....... when Jung got arrested it was all over the news... I am not sure these docs are legit.....

This supposed ruling was 2 days ago... and yet there i snothing in th enews about freetech or coolsat....... when Jung got arrested it was all over the news... I am not sure these docs are legit.....

Brad, I love your creativity with your avatars. :)

Thanks... it's either I work on them or I actually do what they are paying me for... lol

Are those documents legit? If so, that is bad news. Not good at all for other companies. The fight is not done but it will be tough to drop the charges.

Agreed. If these are indeed legitimate documents, then there's now precedence to go after other companies offering similar products. Not good at all. Not only will it be easier to sue other companies, it could be quicker, as well.

Agreed. If these are indeed legitimate documents, then there's now precedence to go after other companies offering similar products. Not good at all. Not only will it be easier to sue other companies, it could be quicker, as well.

all these documents could be from back in 2006 when coolsat used the aux bin for the map 57 fix for the 4/5/6k models

that judge is there but like somebody else said there aint no signatures on these documents. this judge has been involved in a lot of internet stuff.

they look like a cut and paste job with a overlay. just scare tactics created to scare people into buying subscriptions .and throwing away good fta recievers

The documents are B S

now how many copy cat stb makers will pop up now it takes more than 1 bullet to win a war more than 1 can of raid to get rid of roaches and more than 1 court judgement to end fta after all how can they collect if no one buys the product this should be kept on the toilet paper roll because its only good for wipe's

No this is not the end as long as dealers sell only True free to air boxes, and does not participate in software or the circumventing dxxk netwoks security system. As most manufacturers only deliver a free to air product and does not condone any illegal use and as long as they continue with that, and has no dealings with third parties or circumventing the security system they are good. Dxxh would have to have concrete evidence to that effect if not case dismissed.:censored::clap:

__________________________________________________ ___

A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste

Why are the documents not actually signed except that one with the electronic stamp.... I have never seen a legal document filed that way... hmmmm

yeap .. you are right those documents need the signature from the judge to be valid and takes effect

With these court docs floating around I look at these an feel they are nothing more but fake. I think they are trying to use the scare tactic just to try an scare all of us, all we can do tho is sit back an watch and wait to see what happens next.

hold on, nothing gets paid either way there are so many appeals that it will be locked in the legal system for many many years, and the company will go on, and at the end if the ruling sticks the amt. will drop considerably.

That Is Ever So True

Charlie with and extra 100 mill. maybe all subs should be free for the next year

they look like a cut and paste job with a overlay. just scare tactics created to scare people into buying subscriptions .and throwing away good fta recievers

Big time scare tactics I'm with you,besides if one company got caught is because they were dam doing business,i know there are thousands of companies that they wont touch because they are selling true FTA receivers and not exposing themselves to illegal stuff,so don't worry.

this should be in the rumors section 9 ( think about it how would legal doc. gets leecked out like this seriously )

this should be in the rumors section 9 ( think about it how would legal doc. gets leecked out like this seriously )

My thinking exactly....

Not sure about US law, but if these docs were public knowledge, could we not call Freetechs lawyer and ask if this is true?

until someone comes knocking on your door dont worry about this bulls**t people

to find out if this is a final legal document, we need a reputable moderator to call the san jose california court house and ask IF THERE IS A FINAL JUDGEMENT ON THIS CASE NUMBER. they will answer with out any questions of who are you or where or why.
the clerk of the court will look up the case number and tell you the results of the case.
we need a reputable moderator/person on this sight to do this so we can believe the answer that is posted.
oh yes, by the way, YES, this will be appealed and in the courts for years that is why they asked for so much money, the average final collection on a first court hearing amount is a final payment of 10% of the original request.
good luck as always

Give me the telephone number....I will call

ive done some research iny
on the skiny?lol theres no way a ruleing has or had been made either way dont get yer n.ts in a twist court appeals office in district where it is being held is ongoing and will be for some time! we,ll be safe for now ,,,, trust in god everyone else pay cash...

The phone number for the court, lets see if you have what it's take!:lol::lol:

(408) 882-2100, select option 6, then option 3

post me the case number real quick

Don't know!
It should be on the original documents posted.

crap...i was trying to not have to re-open them.....and it is after 5 at the courthouse...bet I don't get an answer...but I will try

nope..no answer....office closes at 4 pm....will check tomorrow....but that is the correct number and options to choose

The phone number for the court, lets see if you have what it's take!:lol::lol:

(408) 882-2100, select option 6, then option 3
and you want to see if i got what it takes....hah....you just don't know me very well

OK, how about a rep point for giving you the phone number.
Since i only have 1-Point !!
Ha Ha Ha..

sounds good...but is it worth the 50 you get if i give rep? Lets see what others say...and you have 7

i gave him some ken

Hey...I called.....don't i get some? hahahahaha

Wouldn't you rather have beer than reps? Priorities people :cheers:

lol i tried,, gotta spread em around

Doh! OK...send beer

I did not pull up anything so far on a pacer search.


Try this link. Will cover all trials in process and ended.


http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/cmecf/dc/criminal/10trial/1000events.html

hehe, gotta get another computer now- made funny sounds and smoked a little when I poured it in the back-
please say you got it (or else it'll all be in vain lol) :5shots:

Sorry you fried your puter....but i am still thirsty....

send all beer to me,,ill see that it get passed on to the correct ppl..thats the least i can do

Do not even see this judges name appointed to this district.


https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/index.html

Hey...I called.....don't i get some? hahahahaha

I gave reps to you and farid-afshar Ken it will be interesting to find the truth about this thanks

You called but "no answer".
When you get the good news we all give you points,,,,
I supplied the number "now"
So your kindness will be appreciated.

Thanks....I will call tomorrow during office hours and see what I can find out and post it up

Doh! OK...send beer



points for all on this search..!!!!:thmbup:

You called but "no answer".
When you get the good news we all give you points,,,,
I supplied the number "now"
So your kindness will be appreciated.

i read the rules again,,saw nothing about arse kissing , roflmao

Thanks All XXXXXX

hehehe...but you know, it never hurts.....

kenmoresp call from a payphone just in case!!!!
caller id may be a bad thing these days.

Do we have a lawyer within our members?
If we do we should ask him/her to look at the documents to see is they are legit.

HA ya can't be a staffer and not accept beer in lieu of rep points :)

Let's see if I can get my first rep point:)

just something that I found...

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/CAND/Calendar.nsf/b37ab00feea216878825735a007bb5fd/54c8797a4d4138b5882566a30060ea5d?OpenDocument

Judge James Ware's schedule today and forward - if this site is real and I'm guessing that it is (.gov), then this judge is probably real.

But that doesn't make these documents real. Any additional thoughts?

I think it is bogus, good luck with the investigation!!!

sorry - I guess 2nd rep point. I didn't realize that I aleady had 1 :)

If this was true, DN would have made a big deal of it in the news media.

the documents are real,the judge has 15 days to sign off on them..then they take effect.this is just a draft so far..but not for long ..then they will be final

the documents are real,the judge has 15 days to sign off on them..then they take effect.this is just a draft so far..but not for long ..then they will be final

If they are real, why would they be published before the judge signs them! They honestly do look like someone drafted them up and posted them as scare tactics!!Also if a decision had been made, the documents would have been signed before being released!
Anyway, we'll find out tomorrow when Ken phones and finds out the truth!!:sleep:

sorry - I guess 2nd rep point. I didn't realize that I aleady had 1 :)
since youallready have 1 rep. point. will you take beer than:|>

look at date on this b****s. if this was true we would not see paper work this fast and the media would have ate this up ,get out of dodge thanks for the b***s.

The case itself (07-cv-06124-JW) is real and has been going on for a while. You can find some related filings in the EFF's (Electronic Frontier Foundation) website. The EFF had filed a Amicus Curiae brief (this is a filing by a third party who is not part of the action but has an interest in how the action is conducted and its outcome). The EFF filed the brief in connection with the DMCA portion of the claim and the plaintiffs' attempts to obtain Freetech customer data during discovery. As for the legitimacy of the final order that was posted here, well, Kenmo will give us the goods in the morning. At which time reputation will be bestowed upon him. Though giving Kenmo positive rep feels like throwing a glass of water into a lake.


P.S. I'm not a lawyer, though I play one on TV.

don't worry guys dn is using differents tactics to scare us, but the bird sing even when the branch is breaking.

This is not a court ruling , read the documents.

This is a CONSENT AGREEMENT i.e Freetech folded.

I dont claim to know alot about law but spending the past 5 years in legal battles i can shed some light on some of the "conspiracy" thoughts that are going on. first off the first draft is the initial order. rough draft as you may say. that is why you don't see the signature. judges don't sighn that one. they wait for the good copy. That is why the date is for the 18th. the second document Sighnature is dated the 19th meaning that he got the paper good copy the next day and sighned it. that is why through the whole thing it says 18th but the signature says the 19th at the bottom. also that also matches the time line for the judges timeline for his new cases. looks like he started on his next case witch is in its 5th hearing as of tonight. two hearings a day so gave final order on 18th in the morning started new case in the afternoon.
So i bet you that. that is just my two cents.

Maybe, I'm reading these Documents wrong, but it states, that should the defendants breach the permanent injunction, then these monies can be awarded to DN. Also read more and it talks about the type of STBs etc. that can't be sold, imported etc..
I might be all wrong, as the legal spin of the English language sometimes gets me confused!!!!:Huh?:

Maybe, I'm reading these Documents wrong, but it states, that should the defendants breach the permanent injunction, then these monies can be awarded to DN. Also read more and it talks about the type of STBs etc. that can't be sold, imported etc..
I might be all wrong, as the legal spin of the English language sometimes gets me confused!!!!:Huh?:

Finally someone actually reads instead of going into panic mode at the site of court docs.
First off people, this has been going on now for a few years. Second, this was arrived at by mediation, not the actual findings of the court. The court is simply a tool now that is used to enforce the mediated agreement. Third, the judgement that is going to be enforced specificly says... "Primarily used to circumvent" and "have only a limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent Plaintiffs’ Security System," and.. "is knowingly marketed by Defendants and/or others acting in concert with Defendants for use in circumventing Plaintiffs’ Security System,".
Well I hate to inform everyone here that the courts have already ruled that the mere manipulation of programming, (and even reprogramming a card believe it or not,) does not constitute the assembly of a pirating device. Actually it was the same court in a case that direct had brought against a guy that was redoing plastic. The catch was that the plastic was not primarily designed for piracy. Well friends, neither is a FTA reciever! The primary use is other than getting encrypted programming! However that said, I did see one thing repeated over and over again. and that was the following statement.
b) assembling, modifying, selling, importing and/or distributing any satellite television receivers, set-top-boxes, software, firmware, or other device, technology or part thereof knowing or having reason to know that such device, technology or part thereof is primarily of assistance in the unauthorized decryption of direct-to-home satellite services through any means including any Internet Key Sharing (also known as Control Word Sharing);
(c) intercepting Plaintiffs’ transmissions without Plaintiffs’ authorization through any means including Internet Key Sharing (also known as Control Word Sharing);
(d) assisting others in intercepting Plaintiffs’ satellite television transmissions without Plaintiffs’ authorization through any means including Internet Key Sharing (also known as Control Word Sharing); and
(e) Testing, analyzing, reverse engineering, manipulating or otherwise extracting codes or other technological information or data from Plaintiffs’ satellite television receivers, access cards, data stream or any other part or component of Plaintiffs’ security system or other technology used to gain access to DISH Network programming including through the use of Internet Key Sharing (also known as Control Word Sharing).

I would say that the first battle in the IKS war was lost. This is exactly what I was waiting for in order to make a decision about IKS. You see, Unlike a FTA reciever of the past that was made for FTA reception, there is no use for IKS in the FTA world except to circumvent the encryption! That is what is being focused on here people. The other thing that is revealed is that "Coolsat" which by the way was not around as a reciever like the big boys, Pansat, Dream, BEC, & Coship, has simply said that they are throwing in the towel. They made their bucks and now time to get out. I do not feel that reciever manufacturers that have been around since the big dish days will roll so easily. They simply have too large of an established market for the last 30 years that they will not just go away. Too many people from around the world have been into FTA long before the "Game" began. I am one of them. I do look for the so called reciever companys that sprung up when this game started a few years ago to fold as they simply do not have sales base other than those that want "free tv". Have a great day! :)

Like I said this battle was lost. Not the war. Only a certian weapon at this time is truly being attacked. And this ruling will set precedent against it and thats the IKS that is being used. Look out Sonicview as they are next on the list. It will be very interesting to see how this develops as just because a battle was lost, the war will go on. I am going to sit back, grab a beer, (or two,) and watch the follies unfold looking for loopholes all the way. ;)

This is not a court ruling , read the documents.

This is a CONSENT AGREEMENT i.e Freetech folded.

you got it man, by doing such a move freetech basically protects the rest of the fta industry, as there is still no admisable evidence,that can be used against fta manufacturers to link coders to manufacturers here.

we have a company that is obsolete & probably broke (on the books) that will simply fold & open under a new name if the future of fta becomes profitable again.

kind of like the time I got busted for driving with a fake insurance slip, I pleaded guilty of driving without insurance & took the fine rathhar than have them dig into how I knowingly purchased a fake insurance slip.

Joe

Stone, although I agree with much of what you are saying I have to differ on two points....

1- An FTA receiver such as nfusion may be designed solely fo rth epurpose of hooking up to the server and stealing signals, however on that uses a dongle is designed for FTA.. it is the dongle itself that renders it capable..... my khub i sonly a weather forecaster so i am not worried about it....lol.....

2- If you look at the original court docs Freetech was never actually charged with many of the things they are told in thi snew document to refrain from doing... ie. Modifying a box...

These look very suspicious to me..... and the fact that there has been no news release is even fishier... they hit the press every time they shut down some poor guys "fta" shop in his garage....lol

Indeed, does anyone have a PACER account? We could pull the case and that would answer the question.

Excellent post Stone, I agree with you 101%!

I've noticed that Kensmo hasn't said anything about the phone call he said he would make????????:sly:

Oh yeah...I made the call...they would not give the info on the phone.....made no sense to me...

Hey Stone you have a great shot at being a Defense attorney you realy picked this apart Great Job.:coffee::censored:

Stone and Ken. Good Info!!!! Usually just a reader. Had to write. :type: Can't drink beer, but I can drink wine. :peace:

Stone you have a good eye for things. As for IKS having a legal use ok guys let's hear what the legal uses are so they can be pointed out for future use when it's time to defend IKS. There are some really sharp people out there who can answer this question I am sure.

hmmm....here are the legal uses for the ethernet adapters for the brands...

Kbox Khub...................does have weather forecaster capabilities (works)
Nfusion.......................can get stock updates, news and weather (works)
Sonicview ihub.............gets access to a chess game (works) other features supposed to be added in the future
CNX dongle and Nano2...has home streaming software available, not sure if it works

Stone you have a good eye for things. As for IKS having a legal use ok guys let's hear what the legal uses are so they can be pointed out for future use when it's time to defend IKS. There are some really sharp people out there who can answer this question I am sure.

Well the obvious comes to mind.... Let me start my answer with a question. "How many tv players are out there so you can watch tv on your computer." Forgive me but the "weather reports" was already shot down in Austrailia by a judge. Also stock reports are also free on the sats. I cite bloomberg tv as an example on the 4dtv reciever, and cnbc on the ku side of fta on w-6. There has to be a "legitamate use", not a "legitamate excuse". If the use is limited such as "stock reports" and "Weather reports", the courts will simply call it what it is, A B.S. way of trying to sidestep the law. Hey, judges are not stupid. It's about time we stop seeing them that way. So my first and main thing would be internet tv and radio. I'm not talking hulu either. I mean live streaming tv. I just got done fooling around with a player that is called "Readon tv & movie player". Got my fix of cartoons on boomerrang. Also checked out fox news and floated around a bit to check out the overall quality. There was a difference from place to place but overall I give it a B+ to A-. If everyone was hooked up like that at this point in time there would not be as many people complaining. The market for that is huge. But hey, we as humans almost always overlook the obvoius and make things more complicated than they really are. It's just our nature to do so. So software and enough memory to run it along with an internet hookup, preferably wifi, would be perfect for the FTA reciever world right now. Without the software with the dongle/ internet hookup to do the internet tv thing a dongle / internet hookup will almost always, in my opinion, have trouble with the law. Have a great day! :)

I need to add, that the above justifies and defends the use of an internet hookup for a reciever. As far as the use of IKS software programs goes, that would be hard to justify as IKS is not used in FTA. But then neither are stand alone bins when they are written to decode signals. The advantage of a stand alone bin is that it still works for true FTA. ;)

isn't looking very promissing

...I'm not talking hulu either. I mean live streaming tv...

I don't think that would be necessary, Youtube is very, very popular and has earned its place as a must have, it is quoted in mainstream media and has become almost ubiquitous in our culture.

There already receivers that use their ethernet ports for that and much more. The AZBox HD is a perfect example. It's been reviewed in FTABins, but images are worth a bunch of words I hear:

youtube.com/watch?v=oIfa-VbaJdM

So there's an example of a box that could not be shut down just because it can do IKS, because it can also do so much more with that Internet connection.