This is in the RUMOR section for a reason!


C/P.

Bazmann

Good news for everyone, the Nfusion monopoly on the IKS technology is broken. Owners of Satcruiser Nova, Starcruisers 9700, Blue Jays plus with board version 6.2 will soon be able to convert their units to accept Nfusion software. They are all made by the same manufacturer AMT and share the very same board. Also, a new receiver, the Superstar also uses the original 6.2 board and accepts the Nfusion software at a fraction of the Nfusion cost. This news is good for the consumers because it will force the Nfusion prices to come down to earth. Capitalism is based on competition and that forces prices down and quality up.
Owners of different receivers that have 6.2 will require to buy the Ethernet board, card reader and a couple of connectors to solder to their board. The connectors pins are far apart and easy to solder, you just need to be careful and take it easy.



I have both the Nfusion and the Superstar. Both have the very same mother board version 6.2 and are made by the same manufacturer. In fact the Nfusion, the Superstar, the Satcruiser Nova, the Starcruiser 9700 and the Bluejay plus all share the very same board. It is impossible to distinguish between them. Nfusion wanted to corner the market and force all dealers to sell it at $219 which is both illegal and impractical. The Nfusion prices have dropped down against the wishes of the importer. I met him and he wanted to sell me the Nfusion in quantity of 10,000 units at $130 plus shipping. Needless to day, as a result of that meeting, a new star was born, the Superstar. Those who know my identity, know my credentials. The Nfusion bubble was burst. The Nfusion prices will come down to earth if they wish to compete with the Superstar. End C/P:

No offense intended to the original poster, but IMHO I do think it is about 90% true.

I have No opinion that I will give on this, other then that!:)

out of all those units how many have Ethernet port because nfusion doesnt run cardless and iam sure they can block them boxes from using the nfusion server.rumors never end

Well we just never know. Just have to wait and see what happens

Nfusion is gonna take over neosat ipro2000

I just need to know what people have against Nfusion.Nfusion is for now #1 reciver.We need to accept.

I just need to know what people have against Nfusion.Nfusion is for now #1 reciver.We need to accept.

Couldn't agree with you more. Amazing how most of the rumors started after n3 bev channels started showing up. oh well

Thats gross. I can see Nfusion stopping this real fast, even though they use the same board and hardware. Not every thing is the exact same, and Nfusion has worked very hard to get where they are.

Nfusion is not even that much more expensive than other receivers. I believe Nfuson has done a stand up job and will stick to an Nfusion. They charge the price they do to keep their service (servers and all) up and running.

Buying another receiver and loading Nfusions stuff on it will not help the situation. What would happen if Nfusion just closed the doors and said no more bins?

I can get Nfusions here in Canada for 170 taxes included, and I'd gladly pay even 200$. They are worth every penny, and it personally angers me to hear that a company who cannot keep up with fixes and firmware they have to steal another developers work.

I know its free TV, and we are already stealing service but come guys, Nfusion are the only ones offering BEV/BTV, they can discontinue this in seconds. Don't ruin it for everyone else, and stop being cheap. If people stop buying Nfusions and start buyign the cheaper (we could call it a clone) receivers and using Nfusions binaries, then Nfusion will discontinue support for them and move to a different manufacturer, and hardware.

Does anyone else feel where Im coming from?

Stick with Nfusion, they are NOT expensive. If they charge 100$ more than they charge now I would more than likely still purchase it, because they outperform and have amazing support. Nfusion has never discontinued a STB yet and I would hate to see it now, and everyone knows they will if people start "cloning" their receivers, cuz thats exactly what you are doing. I sure hope the manufacturer works with nfusion and steps up to the plate.

Anyone else have some feedback? come on fellaz

out of all those units how many have Ethernet port because nfusion doesnt run cardless and iam sure they can block them boxes from using the nfusion server.rumors never end

I agree, and maybe not as far as that, because if its the exact same hardware and firmware, then its an Nfusion and it will be dificult to tell them apart. BUT - they could have a database of Serial #'s or MAC Addresses on their servers, so only the units registered to Nfusion can access updates ;)

Im sure there is something different in the hardware somewhere, even if its a IR or screen, or the ethernet MAC's or brands.

I hope they figure it out too, Nfusion deserves every penny they charge for exceptional products and service.

Nfusion CAN run cardless, they just dont implement it unless IKS is down or threatened.

Nfusion has 3 ways to access service.

1.) IKS - primary
2.) Emulation - secondary (its what all the other FTA's are doing)
3.) Card-sharing, manual bin loading. - currently unused, they can do the same thing as IKS but the EU (end user) must go online, download the bin with the latest card information and load it themselves - SonicView is going to implement this approach with an addon board that can be installed inside the case.
__________________

I just need to know what people have against Nfusion.Nfusion is for now #1 reciver.We need to accept.


This is true, another FTA site (all the mods and admins) i visit on from time to time fail to see this. They banned me a few times for talking about Nfusion and saying how good they are and how they are up and running. They are just kids and they are also scared of getting caught because it uses the internet.

But unlike this site they dont mask their website, which they can be tracked anyway lmfao. You have just as good of chance with FTA as you do with FTA. believe me.

Nfusion is definately one of the top receivers in my eyes. IKS is the future, its known. It runs in Europe, actually FTA is not active there just IKS, they even have NDS opened there as well as Nagra3. They've been runnning it for years, along with nag3.

Doesnt really matter lol they just want a......... FreeSatFix:lol:

The top receivers have always been attacked in this business. STB bashing is not tolerated by most sites because it is not good for overall business. This is the same reason that bashing other sites is not tolerated, it is just not good for business.

Nfusion is one of the newest brands out there and they have an excellent track record for keeping its users up and watching TV. They have also managed to bring back some N3 channels and this is something that the big boys have failed to do so far. (I do not think this will be for much longer, and expect solutions from all the major players.)

However, this has to be hurting sales of the major brands and Nfusion products are difficult to find in my area, due to high sales. The newest HD and SD boxes are just awesome STB's and are very easy to set-up and use.

I love my Viewsat and I have lots of friends that have VS, SV, CW and most have gone out to get an Nfusion. This is the cheapest hobby that I have ever seen, and this is the only hobby that I can think of that pays for itself over time.

Having multiple brands of STB is one of the best way to ensure that your TV is not black. But the only way to guarantee that your screen is not black is to have a sub.

Nfusion is particularly susceptible to attack and bashing because they are new, and they use IKS which is open to argument on how safe it is. It is important to note that some members are not openly bashing Nfusion but they are spreading rumors about raids and spreading doubt on the safety of using IKS.

Bottom line is there is tons of information here for everyone to form their own opinion on which brands they want to use or test. I have chosen Viewsat and Nfusion and I am very happy with my purchases.

What everyone needs to remember, is that this is the rumor section and therefore subject
to much speculation of which parts are or maybe true and which aren't....you will have to sift through and read between the lines and wait it out....it would be great for the Nfusion
prices to drop while the quality goes up ...we have to wait to see......
Tony

theirs- players and haters in any biz---if your product works better --you get the better sales.

if yours doesn't --go to plan b --marketing--mine is better then your??(finding it's weakness) if none--you sent little hits(chaos) to bashs the player and hope the rumors
hurt his biz and brings more sales$$$ towards (haters). etc,etc


p.s. the end is near(n2) --who will win $$$(the squirrel that is gathering and storing nuts($$$) for the winter).

The top receivers have always been attacked in this business. STB bashing is not tolerated by most sites because it is not good for overall business. This is the same reason that bashing other sites is not tolerated, it is just not good for business.

Nfusion is one of the newest brands out there and they have an excellent track record for keeping its users up and watching TV. They have also managed to bring back some N3 channels and this is something that the big boys have failed to do so far. (I do not think this will be for much longer, and expect solutions from all the major players.)

However, this has to be hurting sales of the major brands and Nfusion products are difficult to find in my area, due to high sales. The newest HD and SD boxes are just awesome STB's and are very easy to set-up and use.

I love my Viewsat and I have lots of friends that have VS, SV, CW and most have gone out to get an Nfusion. This is the cheapest hobby that I have ever seen, and this is the only hobby that I can think of that pays for itself over time.

Having multiple brands of STB is one of the best way to ensure that your TV is not black. But the only way to guarantee that your screen is not black is to have a sub.

Nfusion is particularly susceptible to attack and bashing because they are new, and they use IKS which is open to argument on how safe it is. It is important to note that some members are not openly bashing Nfusion but they are spreading rumors about raids and spreading doubt on the safety of using IKS.

Bottom line is there is tons of information here for everyone to form their own opinion on which brands they want to use or test. I have chosen Viewsat and Nfusion and I am very happy with my purchases.

Glad the you are happy!:)

I haven't seen any "bashing" of Nfusion here only rebuttal to the 'rumors' that Nfusion found some magical solution.
On the same note that you bought up,

MANY sites will instantly Ban DEALERS who use forums to ply their wares!:o:thmbdn:
Thank god these decisions are in the hands of the mods, and not ours :lol:.

I wonder If we can all agree that DEALERS shouldn't be allowed to push their products here or should have to identify themselves as such?

Fair isn't it?

well all i an add to this is bottom line is we pay for our free tv some way,, and ya nfusion is a little more then others or are they,, cost of there hd stbs is cheaper then most and now other stbshave had to drop there price,, now like matt said the price we pay for our stb rather it is a vs,sv,cw,nf or other boxes is the cost of them goes to pay for coding them rumors at one time was tha vs payed to have the mapping of the n2 card.and it was some big $$$$ to so remember people if you buy a clone or a modded stb you are not helping yourself to watch free tv you are just hurting yourselfs cause when they stop sending fixes and your cheeper stb is out then you will upset cause your box is unsoprted and is a good door stop or book end dont come crying....i wish to see that all fta sites would stop the spread of clones softwhare and make it so we protect our main brand boxes if you want prices to come down offer what people want ask what people want in a box and have good suport for it work the bugs out first before offering it out tothe market,, i am not a dealer and i have a few stbs lke viewsat exstreme,platnum,ultra sonicview 360p ,captiveworks 600p, nfusion nova, dgstation mutant, exstreme view 3300, and yes my first was a clone pantec 2500, {very crappy}and did not do my homework on that one,,,that why i buy name brand and plus i have been through the no suport of boxes . the point is suport our fta companies they are the ones that suport our coding teams which gives us tv. no stb no suport no tv get the picture

Glad the you are happy!:)

I haven't seen any "bashing" of Nfusion here only rebuttal to the 'rumors' that Nfusion found some magical solution.
On the same note that you bought up,

MANY sites will instantly Ban DEALERS who use forums to ply their wares!:o:thmbdn:
Thank god these decisions are in the hands of the mods, and not ours :lol:.

I wonder If we can all agree that DEALERS shouldn't be allowed to push their products here or should have to identify themselves as such?

Fair isn't it?

You are correct about the bashing, but too many here are using scare tactics and getting away with it because it is posted in the rumor section. In my opinion this is worse than bashing and when it happens the Nfusion supporters, (dealers or just happy users), feel that they have to defend their brand and question the blasphemous rumors.

It is disturbing to see and I don't think it would be tolerated if members here posted similar scare tactic rumors about VS or SV. I agree that it is not a good idea to allow dealers to push their products here or on any other forum, but the competition should not be allowed to post scare tactic type rumors either.

You are correct about the bashing, but too many here are using scare tactics and getting away with it because it is posted in the rumor section. In my opinion this is worse than bashing and when it happens the Nfusion supporters, (dealers or just happy users), feel that they have to defend their brand and question the blasphemous rumors.

It is disturbing to see and I don't think it would be tolerated if members here posted similar scare tactic rumors about VS or SV. I agree that it is not a good idea to allow dealers to push their products here or on any other forum, but the competition should not be allowed to post scare tactic type rumors either.

Agree 100%

C/P:


Interesting info I will take a look, I know a lot of folks are probably misunderstanding why I am trying to open some eyes.
I don't really have any stake in any of this but I've seen the same thing over and over with several brands over the years, and ultimately it is the poor sob on a limited budget that gets it in the A$$ in the end, pardon the crappy pun lol. wow a double pun lmao.
I think that all of these folks suddenly showing up from the defunct Nfusion site have a major agenda. I wonder if there is a such thing as a new Nfusion, by that I mean I wouldn't be the least surprised to find that the folks at the factory are not even producing them right now, this has happened many times in the modern day's of Stb's.
It seems much to familiar that these folks who were virtually silent are popping out of the woodwork to tell every one that these things are about as great as the second coming of Christ lol.I really personally am pretty much neutral on the whole thing but I do have no doubt that someone needs to plant a seed of curiosity so folks can check their enthusiasm and hold on to their wallets until the dust settles.
I have no issues with folks who have experience and plenty of money buying them.
I don't like seeing the ones who have neither the experience nor the money to risk.
Well I'll get off my soap box lol.
Thanks again for the info , and yes I know I am ruffling some feathers but I am holding back and will pull away a bit now that I think that folks will start asking some relevant questions about their potential investment.

Nothing has ever been guaranteed in this hobby and any member here that thinks that this is anything other than a hobby, that could be shut down indefinitely, is a fool. I don't want anyone to get burned in this game either but the only way to ensure this is not to FTA and get a sub. I think it is safer to assume that eventually we will all be shut down and until then lets enjoy what we have.
I am enjoying what I have on my Viewsat and my Nfusion, I am also enjoying helping members here on this site.

Guys, this thread has opened us to alot of opinions. Its good to hear from both sides of the table.

Good posts.

More Nfusion/IKS Clarification Information.
http://ftabins.net/showthread.php?t=66567

that was well put thanx

WELL...I for one have worked with all kinds of FTA and dish/bev recievers...and the nfusion is a good one...but I will have to say that the IKS was first put forth by the dreambox...or did everyone forget this point. The fact that free tv is the whole point of the FTA world and not putting all my eggs in one basket...I have many fta and other sources for TV....and my choice for tv at this time is the cw3000hd...nothing has come even close to the quality and the speed. I think that the N3 coming out now is really going to shake things up and many will be left behind...maybe even the nfusion boxs....but time will tell....so this will get very interesting....some peps here might be eating crow...just my point of view....bash away...lol

Well, while it is true that Nfusion happens to be on top right now, and has a very happy, loyal customer base, its also true that those at the top will always be the hardest pursued, and the first to be knocked off the mountain so to speak. Technology is going to constantly evolve, no matter if someone invents something completely new, or rips off of someone else and makes it better. Thats the way of the world.

Should there be clones? No, but theres always going to be. Even in an already inexpensive hobby, there are people who want it even cheaper often at the sacrifice of quality. One way to combat this and keep quality up is to not support clones of any type. The other, and better way in the long run IMHO, is to educate the new people. Those coming into this hobby of ours all wide eyed and bushy tailed over the prospect of free tv, with no information. They will read a little if your lucky, usually just enough to figure out whats the cheapest receiver thats up alot, and how to load a bin, and their off! This often means buying a crappy unsupported receiver or even crappier clone, and then flooding their new found favorite internet forum with 6000 pages of questions about how and why.

Part of this is their fault for not researching their choice, but alot of it is ours. I have seen it too many times and on many boards, both where I have moderated and just hung out, where the guys in the know are not all that helpful to new people, not that forthcoming with info, and hell, sometimes not even friendly or supportive in any way. I've seen tons of READ HERE N00B posts, and the like over the years, and really, if you have time to post on a forum, you have time to be civil and spend a few minutes giving the new guys the correct info.

In the long run, it helps the forum, and it helps the brand receivers too, because people are making more informed choices when picking their hardware.

Oh well, I'm done. lol. And not taking shots at any person or board in particular, just sayin.....

Derius

Doesnt really matter lol they just want a......... FreeSatFix:lol:

-I don't know what the big deal is anyhow....They all do it....Nfusion and
Viewsat and others all do it to sell their units...I can remember not so long
a go.....When we needed new bin files... U could find on any fta Forums
Viewsat was the first to come out with new bin files....Or thanks again to
Viewsat for being the first again with new bin files.....Do U all get the
picture!!!!! And what happened to that?????.....Viewsat became number
one receiver to buy in the fta world.....A'm I wrong????? Not at all..Viewsat
became the number 1 best selling receiver in the fta world....They made
millions of dollars.....So what's the big deal now????? Is Viewsat losing their
number one spot to Nfusion.....For me I don't give a dam, I just want the
best box for my money....So let the "war Games" begun....:yes::yes::twisted::clap:

Couldn't agree with you more. Amazing how most of the rumors started after n3 bev channels started showing up. oh well

I agree to.. people just wont leave or give nfusion credit..


they just bash em and bash em and bash em..

but when your the best you get that.....

think about it???

aslo Nfusion Nova I can buy for $150 out the door.

or online for $170 Free Shipping..

I dunno where he got 219$ from.


The new SD model is $250.... So I have no idea what he is saying.

i hope that people dont somehow think this is monopoly, someone actually see this as a monopoly? they want to take the hard work of nfusion that have been extremely reliable, have given peeps bev again, whether its basic tv or not, they did it, and think that somehow these other stb makers are deserving to take their bins and make it work with theres??? whether the hardware is the same, the name on the box isnt Nfusion and as far as im concerned dont need to be given the time of day and i surely hope that they figure something out, maybe like what captiveworks did to avoid clones, and put this to a quick end, i dont beleive that anyone should be allowed to just come take the work of others and use it for a profit when clearly its not free to keep these coders working, the fact that the bev channels are still up says alot about these guys, i hear alot of blahblahblah from all kinds of people who claim to know everything about the hobby but if this was true, we'd all have a clear understanding of exactly what htey're doing to make it work and it would also likely be down if that were the case. Im not a huge iks fan but at the end of the day, i sure hope that these thieves dont make 2 cents from someone elses work cause thats exactly what they're trying to do, they cant do it themselves so they try to steal it, no work involved, i find that pathetic

Thats gross. I can see Nfusion stopping this real fast, even though they use the same board and hardware. Not every thing is the exact same, and Nfusion has worked very hard to get where they are.

Nfusion is not even that much more expensive than other receivers. I believe Nfuson has done a stand up job and will stick to an Nfusion. They charge the price they do to keep their service (servers and all) up and running.

Buying another receiver and loading Nfusions stuff on it will not help the situation. What would happen if Nfusion just closed the doors and said no more bins?

I can get Nfusions here in Canada for 170 taxes included, and I'd gladly pay even 200$. They are worth every penny, and it personally angers me to hear that a company who cannot keep up with fixes and firmware they have to steal another developers work.

I know its free TV, and we are already stealing service but come guys, Nfusion are the only ones offering BEV/BTV, they can discontinue this in seconds. Don't ruin it for everyone else, and stop being cheap. If people stop buying Nfusions and start buyign the cheaper (we could call it a clone) receivers and using Nfusions binaries, then Nfusion will discontinue support for them and move to a different manufacturer, and hardware.

Does anyone else feel where Im coming from?

Stick with Nfusion, they are NOT expensive. If they charge 100$ more than they charge now I would more than likely still purchase it, because they outperform and have amazing support. Nfusion has never discontinued a STB yet and I would hate to see it now, and everyone knows they will if people start "cloning" their receivers, cuz thats exactly what you are doing. I sure hope the manufacturer works with nfusion and steps up to the plate.

Anyone else have some feedback? come on fellaz

this is not feedback but a answer to my question would be appreciated is nfusion working on bev with the 149.1 considering the n3??someone told me if you use the new bin your ip addy could be traced can someone clarify please??

this is not feedback but a answer to my question would be appreciated is nfusion working on bev with the 149.1 considering the n3??someone told me if you use the new bin your ip addy could be traced can someone clarify please??

It might be possible, but I highly doubt it. I do not think that there is any more risk than downloading files from any site. You have to decide if it is worth the risk yourself, there are plenty of posts here regarding IKS and the dangers of using it.

I have read them all and decided that it is not likely to be dangerous. Nfusion is at the top right now and some will be trying to discredit there systems and using scare tactics or rumors.

I have Nfusion and Viewsat and love them both, I also have no fear of using either one of them. I hope this helps, you may need to do more reading on IKS...

what are we talking about here ?

nfusion ? >> nfusion to me is the number one box
i have many boxes and nfusion is my best one nova and hd
even if bev is full ecm >> look at the status for bev >>>> all X except for ? on nfusion
so to me nfusion is already better then all the other ones because at least there are some channell working and all the other one are 000000000000000000000000

there is no war here when a box already have at least something

The king of the hill is always subject to attempts at toppling them. That is the price one pays for success. It's called competition. We are lucky enough to live in a free market, where hopefully the best product reaches the top, and does so at a fair market price. Want to see a fair market in action? Take a look at Ebay. Practically every item is priced at fair market value. If an item is priced too high, it won't sell. To low, peeps will buy it, and resell it for a profit. That action give you a median called fair market value.

Once, Pansat was the mightest. Then Coolsat, followed by Viewsat. What felled those boxes from the top? Clone kill code! Those companies had third party bin coders put in their bins code that killed clones. The trouble was, clone kill code killed genuine boxes in all three cases. That cost them customers. Down goes Frazier!

It also led those three companies being sued by Charlie. Why? Clone kill code is the smoking gun. It proves complicity between the factory and third party bin coders. The ONLY FTA companies to get sued are those that had clone kill code in their third party bins. So far, that is.

Personally, I did warn...Mr Viewsat himself, at his forum. Smoking gun, I screamed. How can you be so fookin stupid, I cried. Stop, you goddamn morons, I pleaded. Yes I was banned. Repeatedly. The worst thing? They didn't listen. Six months later, Mr Kwak was sued by Charlie.

Some of us in the hobby, for the most part, those that used to hang out at Curious Contraptions, were, and are, feverishly against clone kill code. Why? They kill genuine boxes? It will lead to being sued? Maybe. But really, it is the fact that I work fookin hard for my goddamn money. And if I spend that money on a clone, NO ONE has the right to kill it. Period. I don't care what the law says or the box makers say, if you kill a clone that I bought with my hard earned money, I am going to be highly pissed off.

Clone kill code? Sounds illegal to me. And actually, it probably is.

In America, here is what they teach in the best business schools: If you see a product that is selling, and it is priced above fair market value, slide right in under it...and eat their freakin lunch. Competition, remember? The market place is competitive above all else. Dog eat dog. That means the market place is also the fairest place on earth. Democracy at its finest. The consumer votes with their dollar bills.

Let's look at an FTA box. Say a VS box. You have a stamped metal case with $19 worth of cheap Chinese components inside. Labor costs? Three bowls of rice, and one for overtime. Total cost = $20. Add a dollar per box for the energy it takes to get it to market, and you have one cheap piece of crappola sittin on that shelf. The box itself is unadulterated, and utter...crap. Poorly made fookin crap.

So VS sells that box of crap, which is for our purposes in this discussion, identical to every other FTA box on the shelf, for a premium over the cost of the average FTA box. If they had gone to business school or read a freakin book, they would have understood that they were creating a market condition that would spawn the cloning of their product. The way to fix that? Price your product fairly. Don't be a greedy fook. Or, make a product that is worth the premium you are charging. Give your product an advantage in features or style or whatever floats the consumers boat. Make the product worth more or seem like it is worth more.

A good example is Sony. They charge a premium price for their products. And get it. But do you ever see or hear of a Sony clone? Nope. Why? Their construction is solid. The components are not the cheapest they could find. They pay their workers a fair market wage. Their products are well designed. That all combines into something called reliability. There is a fair percentage of human beans in America that have always been willing to pay for reliability. It is important to them. With Sony, they get what they pay for. IF Sony charged a premium price, and built their products the same as any other company, they would have gone under a long time ago. Why? Sony clones.

If you ever bring a product to the market place, and you start to see clones of your product, it means one thing: You were a greedy fook. The only proper response? Reduce your price or enhance your product. In no business school in the entire western world do they teach that the proper response is to...KILL the fookin clones. It is absurd. It is wrong. It's illegal. And it pisses us off.

The proper response for Nfusion is to reduce the price of their box to one that is fairer in the market place. Or enhance their product. If you see Nfusion do the unthinkable--clone kill code--it won't be long before they fall from grace, and someone else takes their place. If you start to see clone kill code in the Nfusion third party bins, stop buying Nfusion boxes. Why? History tells us to. We don't need no business school to tell us that.

man i couldnt have said it better and there is a great other stb that recently went south with a serial and you know who you are that action alone has cost them and will in the future . bro, i couldnt agree more

Outstanding Post HeyRube:thmbup:

I agree with the above statement, but isn't there something to be said about being to the market first? Doesn’t that give a company the right in a free market to give a price point that will screw over the consumer?

The monopoly is broken, finally, and the fact that receivers are now coming to the market that are similar to that of the Nfusion will change Nfusion's price point, but it will not change the minds of consumers to much if support isn't there. What do I mean? type in Nfusion and you get 1000's of sites offering support, codes, newbie file packs, you name it. Receivers like Superstar are a little harder to come by, and consumers might feel that you need more advanced knowledge of FTA programming to properly operate these boxes compared to that of the Nfusion.

Support for this statement can be seen in this site, browse to the FTA status section, and you cannot find if the Superstar box is up or down right now, or files, and only a handful of people even know the box is around.

The point I am making is that you will not see Nfusion come down to fair market value, you will see a reduction in price, but we fail to factor in the intangible part of these boxes, support and brand recognition. We failed to incorporate this into what fair market value is, because we created this intangible factor. Every FTA site is proof of this. We made the monster, now to take it down every FTA user needs to push the free market to its limits. Those entering into the market of FTA, and even those who have been around for a couple of years are going to purchase what has the most support so they are not in the dark when it comes to spending hundreds of dollars on equipment.

Remember the consumer is King, what we want we will get, we wanted a cheaper IKS, we got one, but we are failing in the brand recognition section of taking a monster down a peg. Let's bring support for these products give people a true option, only then we will see products like Nfusion, now and in the future priced correctly.

Of course the other option is don't buy if you think it is overvalued, believe it or not just because you can't physically see the limit on your credit card doesn't mean you have to test it to see if it really exists. FEED THE PIG FOR CHANGE. (for those who don't know that saying it means put money in the piggy bank, not a real bank might not be there tomorrow:lol: ,feed the pig, get it.)

Just my thoughts.

Hi lilelmo

What you are talking about, they call in business school, "Goodwill." They teach that goodwill is worth more than anything. Once you earn it, it is hard for the consumer to forget it. It is hard to fook it up, once you have earned goodwill. Goodwill is what makes generation after generation swear by, say, a Sony Tv. Or a Cadillac automobile.

Hi, HeyRube,

Yes I was going to say Goodwill, instead I was trying over simplify what I was saying, in case those might not completely understand the idea of Goodwill, as I am a business student and understand its meaning. But, just stating that you are right, and that we the FTA consumers can put a real dent into the idea of Goodwill and how it should be including in the price of these receivers by giving more support for other IKS receivers and really try to bring the fair price out.

As you stated they are all the same receiver, all they need is our support, I am just hoping that those who understand IKS much better than I do can bring forth that support to the FTA community.


(Side note, good example on Sony, bad on Cadillac(GM) company wouldn't be begging for money, badly by the way, if they had a shred of consumer confidence in them, a true definition by any standers to Fook up "Goodwill" . Just a side nothing more lol.)

Yeah, you right. I'm old though, and Cadillac used to mean something. If something was was way above average, we used say, "It's Cadillac." But them days are long gone. Now we'd say, maybe, "It's Lexus," or some such shiite.

I started out as a business major, but eventually went with a...teaching credential.

Please! Anyone who is so tight to buy a clone to save 20 or 30 bucks deserves to get shut down. If the makers of clones are such heroes they should have their own set of coders to write files. They are the ones raking in all the lute while they live off of tight wads and someone elses hard work! I do however feel for people who bought the real thing and got killed in the crossfire! Also those who bought Coolsats and then got no support because their product got cloned. Besides I doubt you will find very many NFusion owners of the Nova complain that they paid too much. In fact it is what you get for your money that makes a product a good deal or not! Then lets look at the HD model and compare it to any other HD model on the market, it is pretty much the same as most HD boxes and yet it is the only one presently working for Bev. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Clone buyers are ussually the first to cry when the coders stop writing files while people who bought the real thing are appreciative of what they got.

Hey Clone Guys
Have you ever heard of "Support" and what is the value of "Support"? Who are you likely to get better support from NFusion or Superstar? It's a No Brainer! How many FTA boxes like Superstar have come out over the years and left almost as quickly? I am sure all the consumers who bought these so called Great Deals are extatic with their purchase. They saved 30 bucks and ended up with nothing! Yeah good deal. How much do you think these manufacturers of clones are going to invest into breaking N3? Yeah lets save our fooking 30 bucks and support them!

midnite200
well all great in theory but every company in this game steals something off someone else, its the way it works.
no encryption system in north america was ever hacked by a fta company or coder, they take what others did and use it for their and our gain.
who may appear on top today could be gone tommorow so to say hey just support one great company doesnt work.
ive seen good ideas fall flat look at the syndrom cards.

midnite200
who may appear on top today could be gone tommorow so to say hey just support one great company doesnt work.
ive seen good ideas fall flat look at the syndrom cards.

How many server have Superstar set up for their users to connect to?? are they supporting the infrastructure? or just taking the $$ and running? that is the point? There are overhead costs.. :thmbdn:

midnite200
well all great in theory but every company in this game steals something off someone else, its the way it works.
no encryption system in north america was ever hacked by a fta company or coder, they take what others did and use it for their and our gain.
who may appear on top today could be gone tommorow so to say hey just support one great company doesnt work.
ive seen good ideas fall flat look at the syndrom cards.

You are absolutely right about that. However support or lack of it causes the fall not a $20 or $30 price difference. If you gain the consumers confidence with a good product and keep customers happy you will very likely succeed for a long period of time. Word of mouth advertising is still the best! Under promise and over achieve will always out do over promise and under achieve. Once you lose your reputation because of service/support in this or any business it is nearly impossible to get it back. Coolsat would be a perfect example of being on top then tumbling because of forgetting about their customers for whatever reason. Competition is great, it is what keeps all business in check and is a benefit for all consumers. Just not clones because they don't put anything back into the industry. They are simply in it to line their pockets.

midnite200

quote: Competition is great, it is what keeps all business in check and is a benefit for all consumers. Just not clones because they don't put anything back into the industry. They are simply in it to line their pockets.

you really have made no point at all in that statement, you say competition is great as long as it satisfys you.
so as long as its not a clone they arent trying to line heir pockets?
cmon now, they are all in it for one reason and one only, to get $$$ from us.
im not saying a cloned box is the way to go at all but dont stand here and brag up any fta company saying they are doing a great service for us because they care.
personally i buy what i want for whatever reason i want and loyalty to any item in this hobby can end in a heartbeat.
you watch if nfusion goes 1 week without tv after all this hype all the new buyers will cry and slam them silly.
i believe every box has its ups and downs and they all will do as they were truly ment to, real fta.

The other, and better way in the long run IMHO, is to educate the new people. Those coming into this hobby of ours all wide eyed and bushy tailed over the prospect of free tv, with no information. They will read a little if your lucky, usually just enough to figure out whats the cheapest receiver thats up alot, and how to load a bin, and their off! This often means buying a crappy unsupported receiver or even crappier clone, and then flooding their new found favorite internet forum with 6000 pages of questions about how and why.

Part of this is their fault for not researching their choice, but alot of it is ours. I have seen it too many times and on many boards, both where I have moderated and just hung out, where the guys in the know are not all that helpful to new people, not that forthcoming with info, and hell, sometimes not even friendly or supportive in any way. I've seen tons of READ HERE N00B posts, and the like over the years, and really, if you have time to post on a forum, you have time to be civil and spend a few minutes giving the new guys the correct info.

In the long run, it helps the forum, and it helps the brand receivers too, because people are making more informed choices when picking their hardware.

Derius


I completely agree. I'm a noob to the FTA world and while I am definitely not stupid where it comes to other hobbies (hot rodding, oil analysis, kites) but that doesn't leave me a lot of time to get on a steep learning curve for this one.

Reading through a well written post helps on that curve in comparison to a "read here" and "you might wanna check this link" post.

well i couldnt disagree more with anyone that supports clones, those are the guys that can afford to sell if for less cause they're not paying 2 cents for coders, whether that makes it illegal or not, whatever thats how it works, for every clone sold is money taken from the guy whos trying to keep his head above water trying to keep coders going and new fixes for the freetv'ers, i dont care how much money they're making they're also having to feed the coders. This to me means more then free market bs, although competition is healthy, killing competition is also natural. I dont give 2 bits of crap about clone makers cause they have absolutely not interest in the buyer, they're interested in the quick buck cause they know eventually the guy paying the coders will be forced to do something to stop them from taking their business and really at the end of the day can you really blame em?

midnite200

quote: Competition is great, it is what keeps all business in check and is a benefit for all consumers. Just not clones because they don't put anything back into the industry. They are simply in it to line their pockets.

you really have made no point at all in that statement, you say competition is great as long as it satisfys you.
so as long as its not a clone they arent trying to line heir pockets?
cmon now, they are all in it for one reason and one only, to get $$$ from us.
im not saying a cloned box is the way to go at all but dont stand here and brag up any fta company saying they are doing a great service for us because they care.
personally i buy what i want for whatever reason i want and loyalty to any item in this hobby can end in a heartbeat.
you watch if nfusion goes 1 week without tv after all this hype all the new buyers will cry and slam them silly.
i believe every box has its ups and downs and they all will do as they were truly ment to, real fta.
My point was simply that the coders have a responsibility to code for viewsat boxes or sonicview or captive works but not for their clones. The clones simply put out someone elses product and hope that someone else continues to support it so they can continue to sell. Sure everyone is out to make money you and I included or we wouldn't survive. The competition between all the FTA companies that have support for their products keeps them all in line. Some charge more for their product and customer expectations are higher, if they satisfy those expectations they are successful. You gotta admit there are alot of dead boxes out there, both clones and other that simply did not make their customers happy so they did not last long. Any one, NFusion included can crash, but only if they stop providing good support (for whatever reason)!

ROFL

its hilarious to see nfusion fanboyz being pirates themselves, lol... get mad at the fact that soon their precious lil box wont be the only one using that technology, or that someone else has figured out how to lol, hehe...... 'pirate' nfusion.


its frikn hilarious

lov my nfusion, but thats funny

thats not what anyone is saying, its not only the technology, its using their actual servers and bins to make their clones work, not like what say neosat is doing with their own stuff, theres a difference

I'll buy a knock-off any freakin day. Which is to say, I'll buy a clone if the price is right. To be cloned means you overpriced your product too far above fair market value. It means you are ripping off the consumer. That's the point to remember.

VS was ripping off consumers by overcharging them for their box of cheap crap. They deserve to be cloned. That they killed genuine VS boxes along with clones due to sloppy clone kill code, and then denied that they had clone kill code in their third party bins, all to perhaps sell the consumer ANOTHER VS box is...criminal. Yes, that is what got Mr Kwak to finally bend over--possible RICO Act charges. That's an organized crime statute, by the way.

I can tell you for a fact that someone who writes code would OBJECT to clone kill code messing up their sexy, smooth code flow. Coders don't write code to break machines. It's like telling a doctor to kill people. They will, if you pay them enough or threaten them enough. But they will NOT like it. It is NOT their job. Clones are a business problem with business solutions. Killing clones is a Korean idea that we in the western world simply find repugnant.

The below statement is utter crap. It's bullshit. Plain and simple. Idiotic even. Coders have one responsibility: write great code. Clone kill code cannot be great code by virtue of its purpose. A coder don't give a rat fook about clones. It's not his or her job. That's what the suits are for. In fact, a coder would object to CRAP screwing up the flow. Strongly object! WTF!

"My point was simply that the coders have a responsibility to code for viewsat boxes or sonicview or captive works but not for their clones."

A coder would be proud to make his code work well in a clone, but they would object to making it work crappy in a clone. Get it? IF you don't, you've never created anything. So STFU.

Those that object to clones simply do not understand that they've been ripped off. The original, over priced product was a fraud. A fake. A scam. Not the clones. The clones are real.

It goes without saying that FTA box dealers are against clones. Oh, they are just so offended. But so what. I work hard for my money. I can spend it any way I want to, and that includes buying knock-offs and clones. I don't really give a fook if VS the company is against clones or that clones impinge on their business model. So what? I could not care less about their bottom line. It's MY bottom line I am concerned with. If they were concerned with my bottom line, they wouldn't be overcharging me for their box of crap, would they? Why would I care about their bottom line when they're not concerned with mine? Why would anyone care?

Pirates who's hobby is to steal Tv are against clones! Don't that beat all. Companies that makes a product to specifically steal Tv, object when another company clones their over priced box of crap! Sanctomonious, pretentious, and pius pirates! What a hoot!

you have a point there HeyRude
Maybe talk like this will drive the prices down!