WINNIPEG - A man who believed he was following God's orders when he stabbed and beheaded a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba has been found not criminally responsible, devastating the victim's loved ones.
Justice John Scurfield said Vince Li's attack on Tim McLean last summer was "barbaric," but the law makes allowances for those with severe mental illnesses.
"These grotesque acts are appalling," Scurfield said Thursday. "However, the acts themselves and the context in which they were committed are strongly suggestive of a mental disorder.
"He did not appreciate the act he committed was morally wrong. He believed he was acting in self defence and that he had been commanded by God to do so."
Both Crown and defence psychiatrists had testified at Li's trial that he was suffering from schizophrenia and believed God wanted him to kill McLean because the young man was a force of evil.
Li, 40, was charged with second-degree murder but pleaded not guilty. His DNA will be put on file but he won't have a criminal record.
He is to appear before a criminal review board within 90 days to determine how he will be institutionalized. His mental health will be reviewed every year to determine if he can be released into the community.
"That does not mean that he should go free," Scurfield said in his decision. "The public needs to know that when a person is found not criminally responsible, it does not automatically follow that a person will be released into the community ... People who are found not criminally responsible but who continue to pose a danger to the community may be kept in a locked institution for the rest of their lives."
That was cold comfort to McLean's mother, Carol deDelley.
Li may be mentally ill, but the fact remains that he killed her son in the most brutal possible way, she said.
"He still did it," she told reporters outside court. "Whether he was in his right frame of mind or not, he still did the act. There was nobody else on that bus holding a knife slicing up my child. Nobody else did that. Just one individual did that."
Dedelley said will fall to the family to attend Li's annual reviews and try to ensure he never be allowed on the streets again. The law needs to be changed so someone can be found not psychologically accountable but still criminally responsible for a crime, she said.
She also took a shot at Canadian immigration policies which she said allowed Li, who was born in China, into the country with a mental illness in the first place.
But both Crown prosecutors and Li's defence lawyers said justice was done.
"The evidence was so overwhelming that he was not criminally responsible," said Crown lawyer Joyce Dalmyn. "I had an obligation to bring that to the court's attention and the family understand and respect that."
The review board will do its job "properly" in determining if Li is ever fit for release, she added.
Such boards look at police reports and transcripts of previous judicial hearings and also hear evidence from treating psychiatrists, who testify about a patient's current mental condition, treatment and prognosis. Crown and defence lawyers get the opportunity to ask questions.
The board must carefully consider whether a patient could function in society or would pose a risk to the public. Members take into account a patient's insight into the illness as well as into what happened.
"Mr. Li will get help," said his lawyer, Alan Libman. "The Canadian public can be assured that the review board will take into consideration the protection of the public. Mr. Li advised me after court that he's going to work with his treatment team because it's his desire to get better."
Scurfield's decision brings an end to a trial that lasted barely two days and only heard from the two psychiatrists, both of whom testified that Li is mentally ill and didn't realize killing McLean was wrong.
McLean's family dismissed the trial as a "rubber stamp" that allowed Li to get away with murder. They are vowing to turn their attention to fighting the law that allows people who are found not criminally responsible to be released once they are deemed well, without serving a minimum sentence in jail.
That Li killed the 22-year-old carnival worker - brutally stabbing him dozens of times, beheading him and then mutilating his body - was never in question at the trial.
An agreed statement of facts read in court detailed how Li sat next to McLean after he gave him a smile and asked how he was doing. It was after McLean closed his eyes to listen to music on his headphones that Li said he heard the voice of God.
"Suddenly the sunshine came in the bus and the voice said, 'Quick. Hurry up. Kill him and then you'll be safe,"' Li told one of his psychiatrists. "It was so quick, such an angry voice, and I had to do what it said. I was told that if I didn't listen to the voice, I would die immediately."
Li ignored other horrified passengers as he repeatedly stabbed the young man, who unsuccessfully fought for his life.
When the bus pulled over near Portage la Prairie, Man., Li was engrossed with stabbing and mutilating McLean's body. Passengers fled the bus and stood outside.
Li tried numerous times to leave the vehicle but was locked inside and continued methodically carving up McLean's body. Police said body parts were found throughout the bus in plastic bags, although part of his heart and both eyes were never found and were presumed to have been eaten by Li.
The victim's ear, nose and tongue were found in Li's pocket.
God told him to cut up McLean and scatter his body parts around the bus, Li said.
"God told me to do it. Otherwise it would come back to life very quick and kill me. So I cut it up to make sure he couldn't come back to life ... God told me to cut off his head, so I did."
Li tried to escape from the bus through a window and was taken into custody.
After that, with blood smeared on his face from the attack, he politely apologized to police and pleaded with officers to take his life.

ya i saw that on the news, its sad but a honest decission.
he without a doubt is mentally insane, i think the law should state no matter what he never walks public streets again.
i really cant see someone that dissturbed ever being safe.

lets hope he never gets free

What a sham. That's the problem with society, people are not held accountable for their actions. Mentally ill or not.
After reading the article, it seemed very clear "his mental health will be reviewed every year". That means that every year he stands a chance of being unleashed on the public. I would have thought, at the very least, he would have been institutionalized for the remainder of his life.

we all agree he should never be released.
but he is definatly a mentally ill person.

Well I really dont care if he is mental or not they should have put a bullet in that sick fook, I can not imagine what this poor family has gone through since this horrific act has happened. And If its not bad enough that they have to live with this the rest of there lives and now they are to deal with it every time Li has a annual review and try to ensure he never be allowed on the streets again, what kind of sick fooken joke is that for that family.
`Justice was done` they said what slap in the face to that poor family,
Our justice system is full of holes for sickos like this.
I just wish if the bleeding hearts want to keep these sick mo fo`s alive they would step up and pay my tax dollars that are going to keeping them well sheltered & fed. JMO

so you honestly dont believe in the mentally ill?
i do agree he should never walk the streets again but cmon something in his brain had to have snapped.
i have to say if people are truly not capeable of understanding right from wrong they should be delt with differently, but never free again.

Well I really dont care if he is mental or not they should have put a bullet in that sick fook, I can not imagine what this poor family has gone through since this horrific act has happened. And If its not bad enough that they have to live with this the rest of there lives and now they are to deal with it every time Li has a annual review and try to ensure he never be allowed on the streets again, what kind of sick fooken joke is that for that family.
`Justice was done` they said what slap in the face to that poor family,
Our justice system is full of holes for sickos like this.
I just wish if the bleeding hearts want to keep these sick mo fo`s alive they would step up and pay my tax dollars that are going to keeping them well sheltered & fed. JMO

in a country that pays people to sit on their a$$ and pop out kids i have no trouble paying to keep this guy intitutionalized for life... he obviously has a sicksness.... and by the way... your nickname gives you little credibility when discussing this subject.... you obviously have zero respect.....

i see mentals point, the poor family.
but in this case i honestly believe he's a nutbar.
how we deal with true mentally ill is a hard call.

I agree... my question is what happened to let this guy get to that point?..... I am glad it is not a family member of mine

in a country that pays people to sit on their a$$ and pop out kids i have no trouble paying to keep this guy intitutionalized for life... he obviously has a sicksness.... and by the way... your nickname gives you little credibility when discussing this subject.... you obviously have zero respect.....

Not that I am going to get into it with you but my nick is a joke between me and my 4 kids , I could tell you what type of person would have the nick superbrad sounds like to me but that would make me as low as you.
You go and read that over and pretend thats your child that got brutally hacked to pieces and see if you would say oh well he is sick its OK thats fair and we dont mind going every year to make sure he dont get out again we would love to live this out the rest of our lives.
If they are proven mentally unfit then there should be no chance of ever getting out.
That would be a little bit of justice in this case, at least the family could have a little peace of mind (If thats possible) that he will never do this again.
Our justice system is a JOKE, and usually a sick joke on the victims any more.

My nick comes from me wearing a superman t-shirt to work one time 15 years ago..... and yes.... i would be distraught if it was my son that got killed..... but the fact still remains that he is mentally unstable and deserves something better than a bullet....

Its a hard call to make, when your sick in the head it can really get
you down and you'll do almost anything its pretty scary
its a shame he never told anybody his problems it
could have been prevented buts its also hard to detect
because people will say oh he's just depressed

he's not gonna have a good time in hospital
i can tell you that all your rights are taken away, they experiment on you and
your locked up among people who are just as messed up as he is
makes for an uncomfortable situation. and its probably gonna remain that
way for awhile some people would say big deal
he killed a guy but the government dosent look at it the way we do
thats just the way it is. when and if he is deemed fit to go back to society
they will let him out.

The drugs they have now are pretty strong they should be able to help him out.
depending how the doctors feel about him and the way his treatment is going
will determine if they should let him out or not. probably be a while, maybe never.

people with schizophrenia its common to have thoughts that you think god is talking to you because "he has the power" but its not true its just a chemical imbalance
they run tests to see why this is happening but that dosent always offer an explanation
the brain is an organ doctors dont really a whole alot about yet and its an organ
people dont know a hell of a lot eithier.

He should have been shot and killed on the bus,if it was a gun he was holding he probably would have been.Then his state of mind wouldn't be an issue.
As far as i'm concerned this guy is an animal and no doctor will convince me any different.He should be put down.:thmbdn:

One Sick MoJoe

as far as im concerned, being mentally ill is one thing but being mentally ill and committing savage crimes is another, this is one of those cases where the mental illness will likely always be possibility, if he heard the voice of god once, who here honestly thinks he wont hear it again, and then what do you think he's going to do when he does hear it again?? Are any of yous seriously saying that this guy is mentally ill and we should just let him have a chance year after year and put this threat on the road?? you guys have to be kidding me, the last person i want on the street is some guy that will be heavily medicated only to worsen this chemical inbalance he obvious suffers from back into the street ever ...... what is it they do to a roaming bear that comes into contact with a human and kills it??? yes that is correct they kill it, this is one of those cases that the stupid human race would rather keep the sicko alive so they can test and maybe learn from the disgusting acts he committed and then reward themselves by letting him out one day. Hopefully whoever thinks this guy should ever even be considered to be let free one day that he doesnt hear gods voice while near one of your loved ones cause too bad so sad for you. Someone needs to put a hit on the guys head and just end the pain. theres enough violence and sick people on earth that know what they're doing that we need some even worse that dont know.

as far as im concerned, being mentally ill is one thing but being mentally ill and committing savage crimes is another, this is one of those cases where the mental illness will likely always be possibility, if he heard the voice of god once, who here honestly thinks he wont hear it again, and then what do you think he's going to do when he does hear it again?? Are any of yous seriously saying that this guy is mentally ill and we should just let him have a chance year after year and put this threat on the road?? you guys have to be kidding me, the last person i want on the street is some guy that will be heavily medicated only to worsen this chemical inbalance he obvious suffers from back into the street ever ...... what is it they do to a roaming bear that comes into contact with a human and kills it??? yes that is correct they kill it, this is one of those cases that the stupid human race would rather keep the sicko alive so they can test and maybe learn from the disgusting acts he committed and then reward themselves by letting him out one day. Hopefully whoever thinks this guy should ever even be considered to be let free one day that he doesnt hear gods voice while near one of your loved ones cause too bad so sad for you. Someone needs to put a hit on the guys head and just end the pain. theres enough violence and sick people on earth that know what they're doing that we need some even worse that dont know.

Right on !!!:thmbup:

we need to enforce the laws we have. it don't matter if your sick, drunk, stone are mentally ill, are just plain mad. if you kill someone in cold blood then pay the consequence.

beside if GOD told him to do this, he would know what the punishment is.
he can die a happy martyr and get 72 virgins (haha)

witch human is naturaly prepard to kill? NO ONE,,,,so everybody who is a killer is mentaly ILL. Lets get everybody out of the jail......no one is responsible enymore for there ACTIONS.
This justice system SUCKS!!!!!!!

Well I am glad to see that there is still some who feel as I do, well said Allister.

Well I am glad to see that there is still some who feel as I do, well said Allister.

I was abit quick earlier to discount your opinion mental..... i just don't think jail is the answer..... our overtaxed jail systems are not equipped to deal with the mentally ill...... I am certainly not in favour of letting this maniac wander the streets after 8 months of treatment or something.... I just dont think there is aplace for him and those like him in the general population

And I guess the fact that he was walking around with a sword before his "message" was a coincidence. lol

Well... that is exactly my point... dude walks around with a sword... police catch him and he gets a misdemeanour for carrying a concealed weapon........ don't bother to think to yourself... "dude..... why is this guy walking around with a sword?"....... something obviously isn't right here...

This is political correctness gone crazy.

Anybody who kills somebody in cold blood is, medically speaking, mentally insane because "normal" people don't go around killing people. So does anybody who kills somebody in cold blood deserve this kind of kid glove treatment?

There is something seriously wrong with a "justice" system that makes the victim's family suffer.

This is political correctness gone crazy.

Anybody who kills somebody in cold blood is, medically speaking, mentally insane because "normal" people don't go around killing people. So does anybody who kills somebody in cold blood deserve this kind of kid glove treatment?

There is something seriously wrong with a "justice" system that makes the victim's family suffer.

I see where your coming from... but would you want to work in a prison full of these guys?..... you certainly can't put them in the same place as folks who commited smaller crimes.... either we have aplace for them or just put a bullet in their head and get it over with.....

Down here in the States, they put both kinds of s**t (sane/insane) in the same prison, just diff sections.
Wouldn't want to work among either type of these scum :(

ok , now this may come across wrong..... id say put him to death.
but im basically saying put anyone mentally ill that is dangerous down.
its a scarey thought but the only safe way.....better hope you dont have a family member ill if that law is enforced.
we all feel for the family member but law is law.
if a grandmother accidently because she is old drives threw a resturant and kills 2 should she be treated same as a drunk driver?
i say yes.
but the law sets standards for all situations, no matter how dissturbing this one is he is insane!!
its not the same as a legally sane murderer and yes there are lots of them.
they kill for money.

ok , now this may come across wrong..... id say put him to death.
but im basically saying put anyone mentally ill that is dangerous down.
its a scarey thought but the only safe way.....better hope you dont have a family member ill if that law is enforced.
we all feel for the family member but law is law.
if a grandmother accidently because she is old drives threw a resturant and kills 2 should she be treated same as a drunk driver?
i say yes.
but the law sets standards for all situations, no matter how dissturbing this one is he is insane!!
its not the same as a legally sane murderer and yes there are lots of them.
they kill for money.



If it was my grandma it could also very well be that she was drunk... she can't handle her sherry worth beans....lol

I see where your coming from... but would you want to work in a prison full of these guys?..... you certainly can't put them in the same place as folks who commited smaller crimes.... either we have aplace for them or just put a bullet in their head and get it over with.....

If a person is obviously a danger to society, that person needs to go. We cannot spend our treasure jailing them, and treating them, forever and the Earth is overpopulated anyway. If that sounds callous, so be it. A civilized society has to learn to decide where to draw the line in a manner that makes social sense. Remove the niceties of religion from the debate and the issue is not too complicated.

but the fact still remains that he is mentally unstable and deserves something better than a bullet....

Boy you sure have changed your tune since the first of the thread, so what has changed your mind all of a sudden? Or do you just follow the majority to make up your mind? I still say they should have put a bullet in him as soon as they arrived on the seen and you or no one else will ever convince me other wise.

QUOTE=superbrad;446952]I see where your coming from... but would you want to work in a prison full of these guys?..... you certainly can't put them in the same place as folks who commited smaller crimes.... either we have aplace for them or just put a bullet in their head and get it over with.....[/QUOTE]

so you honestly dont believe in the mentally ill?
i do agree he should never walk the streets again but cmon something in his brain had to have snapped.
i have to say if people are truly not capeable of understanding right from wrong they should be delt with differently, but never free again.

I find it funny keith that you are asking me if I dont believe in the mentally ill, there is all kinds of mental illnesses and depression is one of them. Which you your self dont seem to believe in according to this post of yours remember. I may not say much around here but I do read a lot. I find it sickening that you dont have any sympathy for some one that is obviously very sick to feel that suicide is there only option, but yet think we should keep this monster alive.
Just a little info for yous so dont say I dont understand or that I have no respect.
I have had to deal with 2 suicides in my family and I have sympathy for all involved, i also have a cousin with schizophrenia and if this was him I would feel the same as I have stated above, and my wife works in a group home for the developed mentally ill, and me and my kids go to the home and the clients come here, so ya I do believe in the mentally ill & I also believe in the death penalty for ones that commit crimes like this.

Quote from keith1612
Re: Wal-Mart worker burns self to death in parking lot
back when i was around 20 one of my best friends shot himself in his parents house.
since that day i lost all respect and pity for anyone so cowardly to do it.
unless you are dying from a painfull disease there is zero excuse for it.
again it a cowards way out of facing life and its problems.
trust me when i say in my 44 years ive had my share of hardships and losses, does that give me the right to ruin my familys life by taking the easy way?
man what his kids or family now have to live with.
he doesnt deserve our sympathy one bit.... his poor family does.
End of quote

I haven't changed my tune... i believe he should be institutionallized...... but prison is not the place..... in my opinion you can't sit on the fence... put him in a mental facility equipped to deal with hi stype or dispatch him..... i am in favour of the first.....

ok point made.
im against suicide but i see your point.

let the guy go in to gp see how long he lives then

let the guy go in to gp see how long he lives then


That is part of the problem in our justice system is the pc, I agree put em all in the gp and let the criminals sort it out, but no they protect all the diddlers and other freeks like this guy and dont think they dont know it.

this guy should not get any special treatment ,kinda sick of all the criminals claiming to be a mental case just to save there neck,90% of them are as sane as you and i.how can a man live to be in his 40s and not detected as insane ,someone should of caught it before he snapped if he really had any problem.so you expect us to believe that god told him to stab,mutilate,and decapitate a young man who was sleeping,dont forget he walked up and down the bus isle holding the guys hair in his hands and holding up the cut off head to show all the other passsengers who had fled the bus,he also ate some of the guy he was one sick F*** i dont care what he says he herd god tell him. bottom line is whether he goes in jail or mental hospital we are going to pay his way till he dies.but to not give him a life sentence is as crazy as the crime he committed.lock him up and throw away the key no year to year hearings to see if he gets better ,and if they can cure him he should not be released back in public ,but put back on trail to do a life sentence for his crime.he deserves jail just like charles manson and his family of freaks, they had to be sick what they did.but they all got life in jail and never are getting out there parole has come up a few times.insane people who commit murder should be in a hospital for life no chance of getting out. they are a risk to the public and should never be free again, the greyhound bus lines has suffered high losses over this,no one here feels safe to travel on them now.bottom line is when you commit murder insane or not you deserve to be locked up for rest of your life. :yes: